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  • Dragon trip
    Dragon trip closed this thread
    04:03, May 23, 2013

    Based upon processes outlined HERE ("Complaints About a Staff Member") and the inability of the Complainant (TheWizardz786) and the Staff Member (AllHailKingMe) to resolve the issues through discussion, I have been asked to open a discussion forum relating to the removal of Wiki Mod and Chat Mod rights from AllHailKingMe.

    Because the complaint may include discussions of policy violations, the following policies are provided for reference: DV Wiki Rules and PoliciesDV Wiki Chat Policies, and Wikia Terms of Use.

    This discussion will observe the following rules:

    Any user may discuss items in support of either the complaint or the Staff Member. 

    NO OTHER USER behavior is to be discussed, and the complainant is not to be attacked.

    Users must speak for themselves. If screen shots in support of an item are provided, the names of all users except the commenter, the complainant, and the Staff Member are to be blacked out.

    • As an example, one of the issues raised is that of harassment. If User A has a screen shot evidencing this harassment of the complainant, User A can discuss it and include documentation. Only the names of User A, TheWizardz786, and AllHailKingMe can appear in the picture. User A may NOT provide a screenshot where s/he feels there is harassment of User B. (In that case, either User B addresses this or it is not discussed).

    Discussions must remain fact-based and as impersonal as possible.

    At the discretion of the Wiki Administrator team, comments that do not meet the above requirements will be edited or deleted. NO Non-Administrative user is to edit or delete any comments other than those they created.

    Discussion will remain open for one week. If, by May 23, at least five users have clearly stated that they support the demotion process, a vote will be held. Users will be given the opportunity to vote for removal of rights for each of AllHailKingMe's roles (Wiki Moderator and Chat Moderator) or for retention of one or both roles.

    The details of the complaint are as follows:

    "Over the course of the last several months, many concerns have developed in my eyes pertaining to a wiki/chat mod, AllHailKingMe. She has broken rules, asked for private information and has not followed the overall conduct of a staff member on our wiki.

    Here is a short list of a few of the major rules that i feel were broken:

    • Discussing pre-release game content
    • Harassment of other users (maybe not SO bad, but there is some)
    • Trolling
    • Solicitation - more than once during my "apprenticeship"
    • Asking for Personal Information (emails and gamcenter id's and even passwords)
    • General Spamming (empty links and pings)
    • Asking me to support her for wiki-mod position when she was running and linked me several times...even after I removed my vote"
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    • I support the demotion process and the continuing of this in a vote. 

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    • As stated in the original thread, I have not done anything that Wiz has accused me of. All of his points have turned out to be incorrect. This is not a matter of feelings. It is a matter of whether or not I have broken those rules. And I certainly have not.

      See Thread: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:943058

      I do not support the demotion process nor is a vote necessary.

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    • I support the demotion process, sorry AHKM.

      This is because although you may be here in chat all the time... you always over use kicking, sometimes just like today, you kicked someone for spamming and you didnt even warn them. I believe this isn't mod behavior. Also in the case, where in several times in chat where you have told Wiz he is fired. And if I am not correct, you do insult him or "correct" him, if something isn't perfect, or the way you want it. 

      In Addition: I know she asked for my email, but that don't mean she forced me to hand over my email. (Just though I would clarify) 

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    • The kick is the warning.

      And there are no rules about correcting him. I have never insulted him.

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote:
      The kick is the warning.

      And there are no rules about correcting him. I have never insulted him.


      Really?? I have seem many times, where you said something wasn't perfect. And pm'ed me and asked if I liked to help, where I was willing to help. And you said he was acting like a child. 

      Edit: In addition: You could have said to stop at least once, giving the person a chance to stop but no you did not.

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    • Is there a problem with wanting good quality renders? Are there any rules about saying I want good quality? To Wiz or to anyone else? I don't think so.

      Yes, Wiz has been acting like a child. But we aren't here to talk about Wiz. 

      edit: removed reference to issues not relating to AHKM's behavior.

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    • AHKM, I respect you as a member of the wiki, and i did not see it comming to this, but i have a few questions, i have noticed that wen u ban a spammer it is always for a day and ther rules say 2hrs for a ban for spamming, i have also seen you ban without a kick, which i dont see a problem but it IS against the rules :/

      also, I dont know if it is a rule, but like i just feel like you dont really participate in convos more, im reffering to the times without new dragons, canb ypou explain tht?

      and im pretty sure it is considered spam wen u link empty dragon pages...which i did fall for a few times...is that to be a joke or trolling?

      also, no offense but the like hiering stuff and firing is a little harsh...could you explain tht?

      And  the pre-release content..i havent personally seen it but idk, so if you could answer my conserns tht would be great

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    • I don't support. I don't find AHKM quilty of the things Wiz has accused her of

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    • I too have a question for ahkm - why have you given the game rules/files to user(s) who did not even know of their existance? 

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    • @Eddie: It depends on the situation. If another user kicks, I can ban on the second offense.

      As stated by Dragon trip, posting empty pages is not against the rules nor is it trolling. Many users do it as a joke.

      As for the hiring and firing, many of us are fans of the Celebrity Apprentice. I am not the only one who jokes like that in chat.

      @Wiz: I have never done that unless it was solicited.

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote: As for the hiring and firing, many of us are fans of the Celebrity Apprentice. I am not the only one who jokes like that in chat.

      But u began the joke before the wiki got obsessed with the show

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    • @that thrid "paragraph" i think you are the only one who jokes like that

      also, you did not touch upon discussing pre released content which is also a concern of mine.

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    • AHKM, i really do respect you as a member of the wiki and I appreciate the kindness you have shown me, but, I feel like after looking at all of the information i have gathered, and looking over the rules, and seeing what the majority of the community thinks, I'm going to have to Support your demotion. I'm really sorry and I hope you arnt mad at me :/

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    • @wolfie: Many of us have been fans of the show for years. Way before Dragonvale even existed

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    • AHKM, a night I stayed up till 5am EST, and there was a spammer and that person wouldn't stop, you were pinged several times, by me and by another user. Yet, you didn't respond, so I tried PMing you, and still no respond. After 2 full hours, you finally after about two hours, and there was a volation of several chat rules. I couldn't do anything myself, since I am not a chat mod... but wasn't it your job to be there, when your service was needed? I believe it was, so please explain why this happened. 

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    • I am a user to whom you provided unsolicited pre-release content, AHKM. Once I asked you to stop doing so, you did, but it was in fact given to me without me asking for it.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      this is not appropriate. if the other user does not wish to be identified, s/he should not participate
      01:43, May 16, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Crthaha no one can be in chat 24/7 she was probably AFK and unable to deal with the situation

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    • The Lord of Sun and Shadow wrote:
      Crthaha no one can be in chat 24/7 she was probably AFK and unable to deal with the situation

      She wasn't AFK, thats why I kept pinging her :/

      Then why does AHKM remained logged in, if she isnt going to watch chat, like a mod should?

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    • @Crtha: I am not always at my computer. There are many other staff members you could have contacted. 

      @Dragon trip: I hope you have proof of that.

      @Wiz: That proves nothing. Let me kow when you have proof of me actually doing it.

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    • How can you be sure of that?

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    • here is where i stand on that issue - no one makes a mod stay in chat. Most of our mods leave when they are unavailable - if they chose to stay, they keep their pings on and allow users to reach them if need be.  

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote:
      @Crtha: I am not always at my computer. There are many other staff members you could have contacted. 

      I tried doing so, but several mods had responded late, after the job was done.

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      AllHailKingMe wrote:
      @Crtha: I am not always at my computer. There are many other staff members you could have contacted. 
      I tried doing so, but several mods had responded late, after the job was done.

      Then I don't see how this is about me????

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    • the whole idea of crtha getting someone at 5 in the morning - which is the same time zone most of our mods are in - is a little..strange to me. 

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote:
      Crthatha786™ wrote:
      AllHailKingMe wrote:
      @Crtha: I am not always at my computer. There are many other staff members you could have contacted. 
      I tried doing so, but several mods had responded late, after the job was done.
      Then I don't see how this is about me????

      That you weren't there when you were needed, and banning that user for 1 day, instead of two hours.

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    • TheWizardz786™ wrote:
      the whole idea of crtha getting someone at 5 in the morning - which is the same time zone most of our mods are in - is a little..strange to me. 

      Then why single me out when I wasn't around?

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    • i do apologize ahkm, but i will have to Support your demotion.  I have observed your actions  and i find them to be....not satisfactory.  Before, when you kept trying to convince me to vote for your wiki mod vote, i told you that i didnt appreciate how, as crtha said, you sometimes show a lack of response.  You say you shouldn't be penalized for the absence of other staff members, and while i do agree to an extent, it is still your responsibility to watch over chat while you remain in it.  Considering you are in chat, even if you are shown to be "away," i am of the opinion that you should respond regardless if you are busy or not.  (My reasoning for this is because, if you are "busy" in the first place, why are you in chat to begin with?)  If you are away and people ping you to warn you about a  policy breaker and you don't respond, you might as well be gone from chat completely for all the good it will do to the regular chatters with no staff privileges.  I was always wondering why you won't be like most of the rest of us and be in chat when you have free time and leave and be absent from the chat when you do not have the time to spare.

      Also, i was watching carefully to wiz's arguments on dt's wall, and i find his arguments to be valid (im thinking of one specifically.)  Harrassment/Lying.  You claimed that you were joking and that it was not harrassment and that you have a right to express your opinion (about wiz's wordmarks, and him being "fired")  I agree that you have a right to express yourself, but not in the manner you did.  First you wound wiz's pride at his own hard work that he did by calling it unsatisfactory and then lying to his face about it.  Then, you have the nerve to say he is "fired" right after you have wounded his pride.  I'm not EXACTLY sure how wiz felt, but if i were in his position, i would have been deeply insulted.  As a staff member, i would expect you to have more polite reactions and explanations versus "jokingly firing" someone and also lying directly to their face.

      I have a few other observations that are of minor consequence, but all i have to say now is what i said above.  I find your behavior as a staff member to be rather inappropriate, ahkm, so like i have stated above, i support the demotion process.

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    • AHKM - if you are in chat you are "around" ;)

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      AllHailKingMe wrote:
      Crthatha786™ wrote:
      AllHailKingMe wrote:
      @Crtha: I am not always at my computer. There are many other staff members you could have contacted. 
      I tried doing so, but several mods had responded late, after the job was done.
      Then I don't see how this is about me????
      That you weren't there when you were needed, and banning that user for 1 day, instead of two hours.

      Yes, I admit that I did that, but only because the user was not in chat when I came back. I have not done it since.

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    • I, although am fiends with you, ahkm, oppose you as wiki/chat moderator and support that this discussion go on to a vote I am very sorry that i have to do this i hope u can forgive me its for the good of the wiki

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    • TheWizardz786™ wrote:
      AHKM - if you are in chat you are "around" ;)

      That's not true. Many people are in chat but not around.

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    • you are an elite group of "people", if you will. What sets you apart is that the community needs you, so if your name is on the sidebar, and you are away, pings should be on - as echo said, if you are going to sit there an let spam continue, what is the difference if i am there? nothing~

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    • Oh yes that user was in chat, and when u banned that user, i was glad. But why so late, being in chat keeps u responsible for everything that happens. Like echo said, why be in chat then?

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    • Again, I am not the only staff member to be AFK in chat. Your accusations are completely unfounded.

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    • I don't see any proof, and I only see a couple witnesses, Crthatha and Wiz. They also don't appear as witnesses to the same violation. Untill further notice, I am going to oppose AHKM demotion.

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    • ahkm, while staff members are sometimes afk in chat, at least they leave when necessary to actually let people know they aren't available ;)

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    • I support this demotion process. I have some points to make on the rules that wiz has stated above.

      I'll first make about AHKM's violations on the wiki's pre-release content: 

      Pre-released content:I know from my personal experience that AHKM has spread pre-released content in both PM and in Main. 

      Kairos: October 2012

      Of the week before the Kairos update on the 17th of October, 2012, AHKM had leaked info to many about an upcoming legendary dragon to many users in Private Message. On the night of October 14/early morning of the 15th, she uploaded pictures of the Chronolith and other essential parts of Kairos on both the wiki and its external forum. However, since many staff were still asleep and the pictures were not removed until daylight on October 15. In that timemany had seen it and rumors began to spread much. Since the files are deleted from the wiki now, it has proved hard to trace (edit: see Thread:944377#55), although the time stamp on the external gives a relative time of when she had posted on the wiki: http://w11.zetaboards.com/dragonvale/topic/8187224/1/ (sidenote: posting pre-release content there is forbidden as well)  


      Storage Tower: March 2013

      Before the storage tower was released on 26 March 2013, AHKM had also spread information in main and in PM. Here is a clear screenshot of her incident in main (taken Mar 17 at 10:27PM PST): http://i.imgur.com/MZvcQKq.png 

      Terradiem Dragon: April 2013

      Similarily to the last two, AHKM also leaked Terradiem's description in main on April 18th at 1:33AM PST  (http://i.imgur.com/otVCzAS.png ), 9 hours before the dragon officially entered the game (at 9:37 AM PST 4/18) as seen in Justin's update to the Dragon Variable (http://dragonvale.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ADragon_Variable&diff=1128309&oldid=1127788 ). In addition, while the game was still crashing, AHKM went ahead and publicized much of the dragon's information when it was not techincally out at 7:09PM PST on April 17, a full 14 hours before the dragon's actual release (http://dragonvale.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ADragon_Variable&diff=1127738&oldid=1126281). 
      Giant Habitats: April 2013

      Again, this time AHKM leaked information about pre-released items. Giant habitats were released on April 29 2013. Here is one unsolicitated PM that came from AHKM on her own at 10:52PM PST on April 19th (http://i.imgur.com/DLC3Dfl.png) Later, AHKM even posted information about Gaint Habitats in Main on April 27th at around 11AM EST (http://i.imgur.com/IXWgCfC.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/h2N8AOe.jpg) even after the user she was talking to mentioned that they should not be talking about pre-released content. 

      Miscellaneous Pre-Release

      While these do not occur in chat, AHKM still posts information about dragons that have not been released yet into the Template:Dragon Variable. Here you can see some examples: Motley Dragon- March 28, 2013http://dragonvale.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ADragon_Variable&diff=1100729&oldid=1099821 Motley was not released until 2:49 PM PST on March 28 yet (as seen here http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Motley_Dragon?oldid=1101213, according to the page creation), yet looking at the former link AHKM had posted the information at 4:47AM PST on March 28, TEN hours earlier.


      By the evidence given above, I see fit that AHKM has broken this rule multiple times over the span of many months, and I support this demotion process. 

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    • Patch, http://i.imgur.com/Yu9tZcp.png

      This user was banned the day I was there, and is currently banned again for spamming I believe. You could check her ban log, I won't state the user. But on the day of March 31, 2013 I was there.

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    • Given the above post and the evidence in it, I am changing my vote to support. You can delete the old one if you think it will help when you tally the votes.

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    • Just edit, your vote, if you would like... @Patch

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    • Frost, both Kairos's perch parts and the motley were available to users prior to offical release because of glitches, it's possible AHKM got the info from the game files, but they could have simply appeared in her game, causing her to update the dragon variable and discuss their existence

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    • regardless of "glitches" lord, she still discussed it before it was released.  To my knowledge, "glitch" =/= "released."  If it was OFFICIALLY released, then it could be discussed freely as most people did upon it's official one.  When the glitch of the karios perch came out, several mods even told everyone to stop talking about it.  And what does ahkm do?  as frost pointed out- she broke the policy regarding pre release content.

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    • The Lord of Sun and Shadow wrote:
      Frost, both Kairos's perch parts and the motley were available to users prior to offical release because of glitches, it's possible AHKM got the info from fan files, but they could have simply appeared in her game, causing her to update the dragon variable and discuss their existence

      She has the offical game files, and she admitted it, before.

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    • I am thinking, and I will let AHKM, explain herself, on why she deserves to stay as wiki mod/chat mod.

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    • (official game FLIES? lol)

      as crtha said, ahkm has the official game files that hold everything that makes up our game we love so much.  No one should really have access to that other than a BFS employee.  But nevertheless, people discovered it, and while we cannot stop that, it still is, in my point of view, cheating the game.  You can find and discuss pre release content on there as ahkm did, which as we know, is against chat policies

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    • The Lord of Sun and Shadow wrote:
      Frost, both Kairos's perch parts and the motley were available to users prior to offical release because of glitches, it's possible AHKM got the info from the game files, but they could have simply appeared in her game, causing her to update the dragon variable and discuss their existence

      Please note that the terradiem crashed when you attempted to hatch it. It was also not available in the market. Furthermore, any dragon that is not fully existant within the game by opening the game itself is still pre-release. Lastly, even if she may not have taken the photos herself, by publicizing them she has still broken policy.

      EDIT: Also to add what echo had stated, glitches are still not released if they were not intentionally released by Backflip to a majority of players.

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:

      The Lord of Sun and Shadow wrote:
      Frost, both Kairos's perch parts and the motley were available to users prior to offical release because of glitches, it's possible AHKM got the info from fan files, but they could have simply appeared in her game, causing her to update the dragon variable and discuss their existence

      She has the offical game flies, and she admitted it, before.

      She does have them, but just merely owning them isn't a problem, if she was giving them to people unsolicited or shared them in chat, then there's a problem

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    • as was said before, owning them isnt the real problem here, the problem is that ahkm is discussing information from it which is pre release content. 

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    • She is sharing the information she finds out in those files, and tell the wiki, which is against the chat policy.

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    • The Lord of Sun and Shadow wrote:

      Crthatha786™ wrote:

      The Lord of Sun and Shadow wrote:
      Frost, both Kairos's perch parts and the motley were available to users prior to offical release because of glitches, it's possible AHKM got the info from fan files, but they could have simply appeared in her game, causing her to update the dragon variable and discuss their existence
      She has the offical game flies, and she admitted it, before.
      She does have them, but just merely owning them isn't a problem, if she was giving them to people unsolicited or shared them in chat, then there's a problem

      Which is what she was doing: publicizing the information.

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    • AHKM has tried to get me to lie and get a user in trouble, i dont appreciate this, look here  http://imgur.com/a/aIDQ9

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    • you know, i never knew AllHailKingMe was a girl. In the rare times i happened to be on chat with AHKM, she never did anything the list states. i cant speak for the times i wasnt on chat,or the unreleased material stuff. Or lots of anything else. Really sorry AHKM. I support the demotion

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    • I have just received the 7 photos from an admin that I posted above the AHKM prematurely uploaded onto the external forum that she also published onto the wiki. As I said earlier, these pics weren't deleted until the morning next day, and the histories of these photos match my information. You can see the deletion reason for all the photos and the time they were deleted, which was still before October 17th, Kairo's release. Also, they give the original time that AHKM uploaded them.

      http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log?page=File%3APerch1.jpeg http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log?page=File%3APerch2.jpeg http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log?page=File%3APerch3.jpeg http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log?page=File%3APerch4.jpeg http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log?page=File%3APerch5.jpeg http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log?page=File%3APerch6.jpeg http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Log?page=File%3APerch7.jpeg

      Edit: better links

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    • In regards to banning without warning/minimum warning: You're right that it depends on the situtation... however, for general spamming the guidelines as found here... under Level 2 Violations it clearly states that three to five warnings should be issued before a ban. And the first ban is to be for 2 hours (depending on the severity). Under no reason should a mod ban someone for general spamming after only one warning (whether a verbal warning or a kick).

      In regards to linking empty pages: Posting empty pages may not be against the rules... but if it does not pertain to the topic being discussed then it is spam and therefore against the rules.

      In regards to being in chat almost 24/7: I have witnessed this a time or two. Though I can see why your name remains in chat, there needs to be some "common sense" used. Before I became chat mod, you were the only mod in chat and we were under a "spam attack" for at least five minutes. Multiple users tried pinging you and tried to reach you in PM with no response (you were not listed as AFK). It wasn't until another mod was contacted off-wiki and entered chat, that you responded. This may have been because you were actually away from the computer. But even a simple "Be right back" would help let people know that you are not at the computer. The behaviour of other mods being "away" or not in chat is not a concern here... this is about you, AHKM, not other mods.

      There was also a time late in chat where I sent you a PM about a user needing to be blocked for being a sock account. I even told you the reason why the original account was blocked. In your response I assumed you would take care of it. The next day, I followed-up on it. It was then that I noticed you hadn't blocked the user. I then contacted two more staff members. It was one of them that issued the block. This may seem little, compared to some of the other concerns, but it is something I have a concern about.

      There are other points, but for now I will leave it with this: I support the demotion of AllHailKingMe.

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    • Eddie786™ wrote:
      AHKM has tried to get me to lie and get a user in trouble, i dont appreciate this, look here  http://imgur.com/a/aIDQ9


      And that behaviour is unacceptable under any circumstances. I have no words...

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    • In the face of overwhelming evidence, I have changed my mind, I support the opening of the demotion thread. Not that it really matters at this point

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    • Based upon the evidence displayed here. I am going to say I Support the demotion of AllHailKingMe.

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    • After considering, and talking over with AHKM, I will risk everything here. I will not support the demotion of AHKM. And if you disagree, tell me why? Because she is been a great mod to people, even in the past. She takes her job more seriously then any chat mod and maybe wiki mod there is.

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    • CelticStar87 wrote:
      Eddie786™ wrote:
      AHKM has tried to get me to lie and get a user in trouble, i dont appreciate this, look here  http://imgur.com/a/aIDQ9

      And that behaviour is unacceptable under any circumstances. I have no words...

      crthatha, this was the clincher for me

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    • In regards to asking for personal information (emails and gamecenter id's and even passwords): This is one issue that concerns me dearly. I have been personally approached by AllHailKingMe in the past and she has asked for my GCID and password. As for her intentions, she wanted to update the DV Wiki’s pedestal pictures using the latest iPad. This question made me extremely uncomfortable because I felt it was my duty as a staff member to help the Wiki in any way I could, but at the same time, I didn’t want to disclose any personal information. After discussing the matter with an admin who shall remain unnamed, I came to the conclusion that it would simply be unacceptable.

      In regards to solicitation: In addition to asking for personal information, AllHailKingMe has also approached me to raise donations for a personal cause. I personally feel that asking for donations from users on a 13+ Wiki is highly unethical. Not only does it implement a conflict of interest with a staff member position, but it also makes one question where a user’s true intentions lie. AllHailKingMe then stated that other users have been approached and she hopes to reach to target amount.

      As for proof, I’m personally not a fan of screenshots, so I hope my word alone shall suffice. I would really appreciate it if AllHailKingMe would be true enough to own up to these violations, but for now I will leave it with this: I support the demotion of AllHailKingMe.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      removed; this is not about eddie
      03:54, May 16, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • AndyKhaos wrote:

      In regards to asking for personal information (emails and gamecenter id's and even passwords): This is one issue that concerns me dearly. I have been personally approached by AllHailKingMe in the past and she has asked for my GCID and password. 

      Did she force it out of you? Your GCID and Password?

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Removed as the earlier item was removed
      03:55, May 16, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Asking for passwords is a violation of Wikia's Terms of Use. 

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    • AndyKhaos wrote:

      In regards to asking for personal information (emails and gamecenter id's and even passwords): This is one issue that concerns me dearly. I have been personally approached by AllHailKingMe in the past and she has asked for my GCID and password. As for her intentions, she wanted to update the DV Wiki’s pedestal pictures using the latest iPad. This question made me extremely uncomfortable because I felt it was my duty as a staff member to help the Wiki, but I didn’t want to disclose any personal information. After discussing the matter with an admin who shall remain unnamed, I came to the conclusion that it would simply be unacceptable.

      (sometime in February 2013) I must add that later she had approached me through another user, asking me the same as she wanted from Andy. I also had similar thoughts, and had to ponder for quite a duration before finally declining, simply because my GCID is also my iTunes information. I feel that this violated the policies of not asking for another's personal information as well.

      AndyKhaos wrote:

      In regards to asking for personal information (emails and gamecenter id's and even passwords): In regards to solicitation: In addition to asking for personal information, AllHailKingMe has also approached me to raise donations for a personal cause. I personally feel that asking for donations from users on a 13+ Wiki is highly unethical. Not only does it implement a conflict of interest with a staff member position, but it also makes one question where a user’s true intentions lie. AllHailKingMe then stated that other users have been approached and she hopes to reach to target amount.

      AHKM also approached me about this, asking for a donation. I declined as well, feeling that it was not something she should bring on the wiki and may also break policies of the wiki.

        Loading editor
    • In addition, pickle and frost have provided evidence of posting pre-release content

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      AndyKhaos wrote:

      In regards to asking for personal information (emails and gamecenter id's and even passwords): This is one issue that concerns me dearly. I have been personally approached by AllHailKingMe in the past and she has asked for my GCID and password. 

      Did she force it out of you? Your GCID and Password?

      AllHailKingMe asked for the information in the form of a favour. It is still considered asking for personal information that could be potentially misused. Whether it was "forced out of [me]" is besides the point.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Do not speak for other users
      23:39, May 16, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • ~=(iNate)=~
      ~=(iNate)=~ removed this reply because:
      repeated post...
      23:51, May 17, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • We do not have full screenshots; however I know that she was asking for our information, as a favor like Andy had said. After I declined, I talked to Andy and we managed to bring up that AHKM had both asked us for this information. There was no way that we told her that she could use it before; rather, she instigated by coming to us first.

      edit: Removed quote of previously deleted comment. Discussion rules indicate all users must speak for themselves.

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    • Crthatha, I would really appreciate it if AllHailKingMe spoke for herself. This is not a court trial, and as such, she has no need for a "lawyer". As for your question, one does not simply offer one's account information out of the blue. AllHailKingMe had a purpose, she asked a "favour", and I declined after careful deliberation. It's as simple as that. It has also come to our attention that she had another user ask Frost for his GCID and password shortly afterwards. And as for screenshots, let me reiterate myself, I'm not a fan of them. Never have been, never will.

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    • I'm new here the first time I enter chat I see ahkm's name in there. Is he afk on there cuz he doesn't post messages ill think about supporting or not after I get familiar with this wiki.

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    • It was a glitch, how would she have pictures before they are posted. TBH, I have seen the game files before, its a whole bunch of coding. And there is not way she could have hacked BFS. 

      Karios- glitch

      Storage Tower- even android users, have seen them too

      Terradiem Dragon- the egg was first found by wiz i believe, who posted it in main chat

      Giant Habitats- it was said that he had asked for pre-released contents

      edit: removed quote from other user; users are to speak for themselves.

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    • AndyKhaos wrote:
      Crthatha, I would really appreciate it if AllHailKingMe spoke for herself. This is not a court trial, and as such, she has no need for a "lawyer". As for your question, one does not simply offer one's account information out of the blue. AllHailKingMe had a purpose, she asked a "favour", and I declined after careful deliberation. It's as simple as that. It has also come to our attention that she had another user ask Frost for his GCID and password shortly afterwards. And as for screenshots let me reiterate myself, I'm not a fan of them. Never have been, never will.

      I agree with Andy. There is no reason why AHKM cannot speak on her own.

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    • From all those messages, I think I should be dun deciding tomorrow hopefully deciding to support demote.

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    • I have been trying to find a saving grace for AHKM after reading this, but really can't. I can deal with the being "out" of chat while being logged into it, the pre-release stuff, the banning stuff, and some of the other things, but not the moral issues. Asking a user to lie and bring up something that was resolved? Asking for multiple users personal info? Asking multiple users to give money? (Which she did ask me about that, too, but not directly requesting money.) And the real icing on the cake is that she doesn't even talk for herself and has someone else talk for her. At this point, I support the demotion of AHKM from chat and wiki mod, and move for a vote to take place.

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    • Eddie786™ wrote:
      AHKM has tried to get me to lie and get a user in trouble, i dont appreciate this, look here  http://imgur.com/a/aIDQ9

      Above all of the other various reasons, THIS is what has made me decide to support the demotion of AHKM. I am sorry for my conclusion, but I find this to be unacceptable, especially for a staff member promoted in this position.

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    • It has been decided. Sorry AHKM, but I have to support the demotion.

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    • First of all, why are we combining chat mod and wiki mod into one thread?

      These are two different positions and any demotion process should be dealt with separately just like the promotions were dealt with separately.

      It may also be confusing to clump all this together. Right now most if not all evidence I do see is in regards to chat moderator behavior and not in regards to wiki mod behavior since she was voted in and given the tools on March 5, 2013.


      In regards to pre-released information being discussed. I know I saw comments on the Game Updates page about a Storage Tower being in their park/market prior to actual release. It has been known that sometimes glitches occur that give some users a building early. I've also seen other people express their curiosity about these comments in chat too. I even saw admins discussing the Terradiem glitch in chat prior to the official release after it was brought up in comments on the Game Updates page, Addressing curiosity is something not to be ashamed of if it lessens confusion or is speculation. Also in regards to posting images pre-released...which was before she was a wiki mod...after the LYD of 2012 situation Backflip changed their protection on their file so images couldn't be retrieved prior to in-game release. Perhaps she had a glitch and they appeared in her park early and thought it was available to everyone. I don't know, but everything isn't simply black and white in every situation. This definitely seems like a situation where there is gray area which could be discussed.

      I am not defending AHKM's behavior, but just pointing out some things.


      Right now I do not have a vote since I do not agree with having a single vote on demotion of Chat Mod and Wiki Mod. Two positions should fall into two different discussions and two different votes if it comes to that point.


      Also if possible it would be nice to have more evidence supplied so an informed decision can be made.


      Thank you for reading this long post.

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    • Bane, I just want to note that the wiki moderator position still includes chat mod.

      Thread:819174

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    • True, then perhaps if it is a chat moderator issue then it should be clearly stated as so and perhaps rollback is more suitable of a role if the community decides that way.

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    • I have not yet come to a conclusion. 

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      off topic; answered
      17:06, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • I think bane makes a valid point, nearly all of points that are made here are about the chat mod position. I also don't think that it is reasonable for one topic to demote 2 functions. In my opinion wiki mod should not have chat mod included anyway.

      I also would like to ask all the persons here to consider reading the http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/DragonVale_Wiki:DragonVale_Chat_Guidelines_and_PoliciesBecause I think I see many complains about things that are in fact not rules (though this many complains says something about how is felt about a chatmod in general).

      Also to zoom more in, I don't think it is reasonable for someone to expect a chatmod to be online all the time (even if she is in chat), and again I don't think there is any rule about it.

      @Frost, There are not any rules that say it is forbidden to upload pre-released information (that is not even directly visible) on the wiki, the only rule that is about the subject is about pictures.

      I also see a lot of people talking about kicking, I would like to remember them that kicking is a form of a warning, and is not traceable to see if or how many times you are kicked.

      Nevertheless all you guys seem to have points that I see as valid, which seem to include harrassement, trolling and asking for passwords and discussing pre-released content.

      These are just my opinions and not hard facts, while there may be some valid points about ahkm I don't see that much evidence (except for the pre-released content, which personally I don't care much about), therefore I don't support the demotion process right now.

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    • I think ahkm Is not bad she's nice to me. And honest so I disapprove

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    • Hello!Everyone.

      First and foremost, I would like to let you all know that I have not come down to a conclusion whether or not to support or to oppose AHKM's demotion.

      AHKM, is a very helpful user.She has been with the wiki for a very long time and contributed a lot (especially with pictures).Besides that, she has also helped me with a lot of things related to the wiki. I'm sure, she has not only helped me but many other users also.I know that, AHKM has not followed some of the rules related to Pre-released contents but I think it's most probably she could not control her excitement about the new content we would be getting.To be honest, sometimes I would be as happy as lark to hear news about pre-releaed contents. Every morning when I wake up, the first thing I do is open my DragonVale application.(hehe...>.<). Morality theory does stress on individual to follow rules and regulations.They should be accepted and respected but maybe AHKM was not aware of it and kept repeating it until finally some pointed it out and who knows maybe she just became fully aware of.

      Most of you have points that have a sound basis in fact reasonable.AHKM!Has put me down by getting a user to lie :( It was really very sad to see the screenshots. I felt it was an ethical concept which holds that self-love is to be the source of all rational action. Human beings ought to behave in a way that will bring about good consequences to, but it depends whether is for the majority or one-self.

      To put two and two together, I would like to hear more from my friend, AHKM.AHKM!If you are reading this thread, please let us know how do you feel.If you think , that you have made mistakes just let us know.One of the 6 most important words is "I admit I made a mistake".

      Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from. ~Al Franken~

      You are a very nice person AHKM.;)

      Let's all make a strategy of dissolution (development of alternatives to avoid this problem).Should we all give AHKM a second chance?

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      It was a glitch, how would she have pictures before they are posted. TBH, I have seen the game files before, its a whole bunch of coding. And there is not way she could have hacked BFS. 

      Karios- glitch

      Storage Tower- even android users, have seen them too

      Terradiem Dragon- the egg was first found by wiz i believe, who posted it in main chat

      Giant Habitats- it was said that he had asked for pre-released contents



      Even if it was a glitch (which im sure its not but lets play along) you are under no circumstance to post them on the wiki, if they arnt officailly out then you keep photos and news OFF THE WIKI, and as for the giant habbitats...ya she was teaseing that since the Diamond dragon was on its way out the door, Crtha if you feel that they are all glitches, ask ANY long time constant member about the "LYD realease" and how she knew about it and that it was a recolor before it was released, and she new spring was comming like an hour before it was in the game!

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      After considering, and talking over with AHKM, I will risk everything here. I will not support the demotion of AHKM. And if you disagree, tell me why? Because she is been a great mod to people, even in the past. She takes her job more seriously then any chat mod and maybe wiki mod there is.

      I dissagree, you saod yourself in previouse replies that you are unsaticfied with her modding abilities, all you need to do is look at all the links, and tell me that is good modding in any way...she told me what to write in a thread against wiz, using a screensghot that DT had taken care of she told me to lie! that is NOT, absolutly NOT what a mod on this wiki should be doing, we are suppose to be proud of the mods, rollbacks, and admins of our wiki, and if you act like that, juvinille, lying, decieving,....that is no way to act if you are a MOD! Crtha I suggest yo think about this, you pointed out the ban times...that is unacceptable, the emplt dragon links such at a "fruit punch dragon"...and even if you think wat she did was "ok because it wasnt tht bad"....i dont think the 1day bans are tht bad, i mean if thy spam tht bad thy deserve it, but Crtha, rules are rules, 3 kicks then a 2 hour ban, and thoes rules MUST be followed to mantain a stable wiki environment.

      In no way am I making you change your decission, I'm dissagring and telling you why, just like you said in your post.

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    • Adriano 25 wrote:
      Hello!Everyone.

      First and foremost, I would like to let you all know that I have not come down to a conclusion whether or not to support or to oppose AHKM's demotion.

      AHKM, is a very helpful user.She has been with the wiki for a very long time and contributed a lot (especially with pictures).Besides that, she has also helped me with a lot of things related to the wiki. I'm sure, she has not only helped me but many other users also.I know that, AHKM has not followed some of the rules related to Pre-released contents but I think it's most probably she could not control her excitement about the new content we would be getting.To be honest, sometimes I would be as happy as lark to hear news about pre-releaed contents. Every morning when I wake up, the first thing I do is open my DragonVale application.(hehe...>.<). Morality theory does stress on individual to follow rules and regulations.They should be accepted and respected but maybe AHKM was not aware of it and kept repeating it until finally some pointed it out and who knows maybe she just became fully aware of.

      Most of you have points that have a sound basis in fact reasonable.AHKM!Has put me down by getting a user to lie :( It was really very sad to see the screenshots. I felt it was an ethical concept which holds that self-love is to be the source of all rational action. Human beings ought to behave in a way that will bring about good consequences to, but it depends whether is for the majority or one-self.

      To put two and two together, I would like to hear more from my friend, AHKM.AHKM!If you are reading this thread, please let us know how do you feel.If you think , that you have made mistakes just let us know.One of the 6 most important words is "I admit I made a mistake".

      Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from. ~Al Franken~

      You are a very nice person AHKM.;)

      Let's all make a strategy of dissolution (development of alternatives to avoid this problem).Should we all give AHKM a second chance?


      If this is in a disscusion thread I dont feel she deseves another chance, this is what it has come to, and I dont respect her any longer after she forced me to lie

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    • Eddie786™ wrote:
      Crtha if you feel that they are all glitches, ask ANY long time constant member about the "LYD realease" and how she knew about it and that it was a recolor before it was released.

      AHKM doesn't have anything to do with the release of the LYD, if I am correct it was Tatzel. That was the first time there was info taken out of the game files before something was released and it caused a big drama. It also made BF lock up all the dragon pictures in their game files so now no-one can open them anymore.

      There was nothing wrong with what Tatzel did back at the time, the reaction of the users on the news of a new epic dragon just went out of hand. This and the fact that it caused BF to lock up their system is one of the reasons we don't allow pre-released content on the wiki.

        Loading editor

    • The supposed problem about pre-released content being discussed actually being put forward as a problem really bugs me. Unless AHKM works under BFS and/or is under some kind of embargo on said information, I don't see this as being an issue whatsoever. I know there is a rule of sorts that prevents leaking such information via image uploads and wiki posts perhaps, but this is the first I've heard that even discussion of such information was prohibited entirely on chat too. 

      Looking into game files and then talking about it on chat was a problem? 

      Before I completely go off-tangent, I believe that the above reason provides little ground to relieve AHKM of her mod rights. I have no idea, out of all the things she's accused of, why THIS is being discussed here the most (or is being frequently brought up, anyway).

      That being said, there are some troubling issues (especially Eddie's evidence, now that's a valid reason for demotion on Chat mod rights). I'm not sure that would justify relieving her of Wiki mod rights too. That should be a consequence of her violating conduct on the wiki rather than just being based on chat behaviour. CelticStar mentioned possible rule breaking if the empty page links are considered spam. 

      I would argue negligence on AHKM being unresponsive (and I do agree to some extent), but on the flip side her 24/7 presence on chat does provide some deterrence on rule breaking - newcomers to chat are less inclined to start up funny business with a 'starrred' name being there. If in the case there are no other mods available, its at least better than having a completely modless chat. I'm just saying it's not a huge offense that she's 'always on'. In my opinion, it's slightly weak argument on its own to reprive her of mod powers but it is true that possible negligence needs to be sorted out.

      The other reasons being pointed out, those have more ground. I'm not sure asking for GC is entirely bad, if it was kept to PMs and was not harassing others for their GCs. Asking for passwords is overstepping bounds, and unless proof was shown that justifies such a thing, I believe is an issue worthy of attention. 

      I guess trolling can be real subjective here, but generally it is expected of a chat mod to discourage such behaviour - and this cannot be done effectively if they are being bad role-models. Not effective ergo not doing your job properly.

      I have no personal qualms against AHKM, in fact we are on good terms. Nevertheless, I'm inclined to support the demotion IF it was only the chat mod rights exclusively - since the voting issue and especially evidence provided by Eddie is I think at least enough to be put on trial for. But this discussion seems to regard removing both wiki and chat mod rights simultaneously.

      Therefore, I am currently undecided on the matter.

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    • ^As for the pre-released content, it is not allowed according to rule 12 of the chat policies ( http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/DragonVale_Wiki:DragonVale_Chat_Guidelines_and_Policies)

      This is rule 12:

      12. Discuss in-game cheats, hacks, profitable glitches and/or pre-release content in chat.

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    • Thanks for the heads up Essiw. This pretty much seals the deal for me to approve demotion of her chat mod status. I'm still waiting on the wiki mod side of things. This really should've been 2 seperate discussions. Oh well.

       

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    • i like wiz. i sort of like AHKM but she not the best. sorry AHKM

      (i like wiz as a friend not ..... the other way. besides im a boy)

      Edit:AHKM is a girl :)

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    • I've read all the proof that Crtha, Wiz, and a few others game me, and I think that's very good evidence.

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    • ^Liking has nothing to do with the topic though, also for your info AHKM is a girl ;)

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    • Essiw wrote:

      Eddie786™ wrote:
      Crtha if you feel that they are all glitches, ask ANY long time constant member about the "LYD realease" and how she knew about it and that it was a recolor before it was released.

      AHKM doesn't have anything to do with the release of the LYD, if I am correct it was Tatzel. That was the first time there was info taken out of the game files before something was released and it caused a big drama. It also made BF lock up all the dragon pictures in their game files so now no-one can open them anymore.

      There was nothing wrong with what Tatzel did back at the time, the reaction of the users on the news of a new epic dragon just went out of hand. This and the fact that it caused BF to lock up their system is one of the reasons we don't allow pre-released content on the wiki.

      Essiw is correct AHKM didn't have anything to do with that, and it also happened more than a year before AHKM was voted into the Wiki Mod role.

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    • Howdy guys. I think I have to write on this thread now. Sorry to misconduct everyone's solitude's about this matter, but I would like Essiw, Bane, and everyone else to take a look at this thread, which just happened yesterday: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:944500

      Since AHKM wasn't able to give me a say about this, or atleast provide me some concrete explanation about what happened here, I just have to post here.

      In the thread, you will see proofs that AHKM is Ordering a user to report something to me, about a conmplaint to Wizard. Not only is she ordering the user to complain, she is also telling the user what to tell WORD BY WORD.

      I don't care what solid grounds this stuff is for, but telling someone to make a complaint to a user, even against the user's will, is NOT acceptable! Not in the whole vicinity of wikia's policy. 

      If I can't get what seems to make me clarify of this action, even though the proof already shows what happened, then I can't give AHKM a second chance whatsoever.


      In addition, AHKM has breached alot of the wiki's rules and policies, based on the evidences that are presented in this forum. I don't need to list them all.


      I honestly have re-considered my say about this thread yesterday, even with ALL the solid evidences or proofs of the things AHKM has done to voilate the wiki Rules and Policies, but after I read the thread I linked above, you just can't half-heartedly your point about this.

      To my summarization, if this is an all or nothing demotion (since both positions are layed out), then I will have to support AHKM's demotion. ~

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Off topic; answered
      17:07, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Essiw wrote:
      I think bane makes a valid point, nearly all of points that are made here are about the chat mod position. I also don't think that it is reasonable for one topic to demote 2 functions. In my opinion wiki mod should not have chat mod included anyway.

      I just wanted to clarify that we voted as a community to support the changes proposed here: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/User:JustinDaOne/WikiModeratorProcess. As of present, Wiki Moderators are still expected to act as Chat Moderators according to http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/DragonVale_Wiki:Staff_and_Staff%27s_Procedure, and as such, AllHailKingMe's demotion thread was opened accordingly. It is no longer a matter of opinion on whether or not the Wiki Moderator position should include Chat Moderator tools because this was discussed for serveral weeks during the ammendment processs.

      In my opinion, I don't think we should open two seperate demotion threads simply because it suits the candidate's needs. If this were to occur, we would be "bending" the very policies we worked diligently to establish. I would also like to add that many of the violations discussed apply to both positions and to a Wiki User in general. "Asking for passwords is a violation of Wikia's Terms of Use" regardless of position. In addition, the candidate in question, "[ordered] a user to report something to [Justin], about a complaint to Wizard. Not only [did] she [order] the user to complain, she [also told] the user what to [report] WORD [FOR] WORD". This type of behaviour is simply unacceptable. What kind of Wiki would we be if we encouraged and/or tolerated staff who took part in unjust "retaliation".   

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    • I am merely pointing out that both roles are separate and since Wiki Mod does not include Chat Mod tools any more, as the linked discussion and vote show, the roles are no long connected by the same tools and to be fair the discussion and votes should be separate even if the results are the same either way.

      I am looking for a fair trial. I am not defending or not defending any behavior of the community member in question. I just see this as a slippery slope if we start clumping demotion processes into one thread if there ever is a time in the future concern about a staff member is brought up.

      Roles which are discussed and voted on separately regarding promotion should be dealt with separately when regarding demotion.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Off topic; answered
      17:07, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      off topic;answered
      17:07, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed

    • AndyKhaos wrote:
       I would also like to add that many of the violations discussed apply to both positions and to a Wiki User in general. "Asking for passwords is a violation of Wikia's Terms of Use" regardless of position.
      In that case, yes it's an issue that would lead to a demotion in both positions.
      In addition, the candidate in question, "[ordered] a user to report something to [Justin], about a complaint to Wizard. Not only [did] she [order] the user to complain, she [also told] the user what to [report] WORD [FOR] WORD". This type of behaviour is simply unacceptable. What kind of Wiki would we be if we encouraged and/or tolerated staff who took part in unjust "retaliation".   
      But she this was done so in the chat. If this was also done on the wiki, outside of chat then its a wiki issue. If the order was followed through by Eddie, then its an issue that concerns the wiki. Did any of these things happen? If so then I'll agree it also counts against both positions.

      This is not about the candidate's as much as doing this in a fair manner. Or are you saying to gloss over the process JUST because it will lead to the same outcome? Both positions need to be discussed fairly, or equally. As I see in this thread, it's really chat mod position heavy.

      Wasn't the Wiki mod position later established as a separate one from Chat mod (as I seem to understand from Bane)? The same complaints can be used, but both positions should be considered separately, IF they are actually separate positions. If not, then disregard what I have said. But as Bane said, if they are voted separately, then they should be dismissed seperately

      Encouraged and tolerated this behaviour? Where did this come from? We are asking for an objective judgement on both cases. There seems to be a danger of subjective viewpoints  overwhelming everything else. If we are going to punish someone for not adhering to policy and rules, I'd expect it to be carried out without skirting around them a little. 

      I agree with Bane's views on the matter...

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    • DeadMan Grimoire wrote:


      AndyKhaos wrote:
       I would also like to add that many of the violations discussed apply to both positions and to a Wiki User in general. "Asking for passwords is a violation of Wikia's Terms of Use" regardless of position.
      In that case, yes it's an issue that would lead to a demotion in both positions.
      In addition, the candidate in question, "[ordered] a user to report something to [Justin], about a complaint to Wizard. Not only [did] she [order] the user to complain, she [also told] the user what to [report] WORD [FOR] WORD". This type of behaviour is simply unacceptable. What kind of Wiki would we be if we encouraged and/or tolerated staff who took part in unjust "retaliation".   
      But she this was done so in the chat. If this was also done on the wiki, outside of chat then its a wiki issue. If the order was followed through by Eddie, then its an issue that concerns the wiki. Did any of these things happen? If so then I'll agree it also counts against both positions.

      This is not about the candidate's as much as doing this in a fair manner. Or are you saying to gloss over the process JUST because it will lead to the same outcome? Both positions need to be discussed fairly, or equally. As I see in this thread, it's really chat mod position heavy.

      Wasn't the Wiki mod position later established as a separate one from Chat mod (as I seem to understand from Bane)? The same complaints can be used, but both positions should be considered separately, IF they are actually separate positions. If not, then disregard what I have said. But as Bane said, if they are voted separately, then they should be dismissed seperately

      Encouraged and tolerated this behaviour? Where did this come from? We are asking for an objective judgement on both cases. There seems to be a danger of subjective viewpoints  overwhelming everything else. If we are going to punish someone for not adhering to policy and rules, I'd expect it to be carried out without skirting around them a little. 

      I agree with Bane's views on the matter...

      If she cant be a succsesful chat mod than who is to say she is a succesful wiki mod, yes she uploads photos, but so does every, and may i remind you she posted the "post of Perch of Karios" on the wiki, and also telling me what to say in a thread against wiz IS very against the rules, that should speak for it self.

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    • It's not the point I was making there, Eddie. In fact I agree that the behaviour is not following conduct of either position.

      In that case, the outcomes will likely be the same. Is it really okay with you that we are merging both demotions in one thread for the sake of convenience? Doesn't it strike as .. a bit unbalanced?

      Is the aim of this thread to demote a member due to misconduct? Or to strip said member of all positions of responsibility in one fell swoop?

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    • Encouraged and tolerated this behaviour? Where did this come from? We are asking for an objective judgement on both cases. There seems to be a danger of subjective viewpoints  overwhelming everything else. If we are going to punish someone for not adhering to policy and rules, I'd expect it to be carried out without skirting around them a little. 

      Perhaps I could have worded that statement differently. What I was trying to say was that this shouldn't be taken lightly. From the looks of Eddie's screenshots, it appears that AllHailKingMe is abiding by the "an eye for eye" motto. One can clearly tell that the candidate was upset by the demotion thread and took part in an act of retaliation. These practises are quite unethical for any user regardless of position.

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    • I agree with banes point of view, no matter what case it is and how obvious for some people it seems to be that both votes will be the same they should be seperated for each tool. The way I am seeing this thread is that nearly everything is about things happened in chat, which in my opinion are not comparable to the wiki mod function. I have held both functions (I still am a chatmod) and even been admin for a long time and from my own experiences I can tell that what happens in chat is totaly different from what happens on the wiki itself, and you need different skills for both tools.

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    • I agree Andy, I was just saying that we should still consider both positions in a fair manner. The reasons can possibly be given against both, I agree with you to an extent. It's more chat related, since that's where it happened.

      I just thought it would be the more ethical approach to consider one demotion at a time, otherwise as Bane and Essiw have pointed out, arguments get kind of muddled. Justified, but muddled. 

      Besides, we want ethical treatment, we give ethical treatment.

      EDIT: Erm, maybe practice rather than treatment is the more appropriate term? Bah

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    • At the end of the day, it all comes down to user conduct. As you may already be aware, several of the infractions listed affect both her Chat Moderator and Wiki Moderator credibility. When policies that should be followed by all wiki users are violated, her "staff role" in general is put into question. Staff members are not exempt from the policies set up for conduct in general. The same rules apply to us.

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    • Let me point out what I see in this:

      Chat Moderator is a position that has chat moderation tools.

      Wiki moderator is a position that has wiki AND chat moderation tools.


      Seeing how almost all the complaints are opted about Chat-based proofs, as well as behavioural-based proofs (which applies for both Wiki and Chat Mod positions), I don't see any other way to either separating them in terms of evaluating each positons at hand.

      By the comparison I presented above, Wiki Moderator is a higher position than of Chat Moderator.

      Since all the complaints are relatively more based in the Chat Position, we can all justitfy that this thread MAY be about the Chat Moderator demotion.

      NOW, worst come worst, and we did a separate thread for Wiki mod and Chat mod, and AHKM got Demoted for Chat Mod, are you saying we can still entrust her with a much higher positon? (Wiki Moderator)? Not a chance. If the community don't trust her in handling her Chat moderator position, then I don't think we should entrust her the Wiki Moderator position as well -- because that includes tools with Wiki moderation and Chat moderation -- and they already don't agree with her handling the Chat moderator tools.

      Same goes when she gets demoted with Wiki Moderator. Wiki moderator already has the Chat moderator tools in that position. If the community doesn't trust her with the Wiki Moderator position, then might as well not trust her with the chat moderator positon -- given the fact that most of the factual complaints all point through her Chat Moderating credibilities.


      In conclusion, ethical or not, we didn't need to separate this matter over 2 different threads, because If she gets demoted in 1 position, the sadback will be stripping her off of both positions anyway. I hope this is clear, and we didnt try to make things biased or unethical to one's conduit. ~

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
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      17:08, May 18, 2013
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    • JustinDaOne wrote:

      and AHKM got Demoted for Chat Mod, are you saying we can still entrust her with a much higher positon? (Wiki Moderator)?

      DM: The probability is not very high.

      Not a chance.

      DM:  So I guess when you are stripped of one responsibility, might as well get rid of them all.

      If the community don't trust her in handling her Chat moderator position, then I don't think we should entrust her the Wiki Moderator position as well -- because that includes tools with Wiki moderation and Chat moderation -- and they already don't agree with her handling the Chat moderator tools.

      Same goes when she gets demoted with Wiki Moderator. Wiki moderator already has the Chat moderator tools in that position. If the community doesn't trust her with the Wiki Moderator position, then might as well not trust her with the chat moderator positon -- given the fact that most of the factual complaints all point through her Chat Moderating credibilities.

      DM: Okay, guess I misunderstood that this sort of convenience was allowed in procedure.


      In conclusion, ethical or not, we didn't need to separate this matter over 2 different threads, because If she gets demoted in 1 position, the sadback will be stripping her off of both positions anyway. I hope this is clear, and we didnt try to make things biased or unethical to one's conduit. ~

      DM: So really it's more of either you have a position of power, or none at all. I guess that's how the demotions work. It's pretty different from the nominations. 

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    • Dragon trip
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    • Frost786™ wrote:
      Crthatha786™ wrote:
      As a respond to Andy... i will be defending AHKM, throughout this discussion.

      "he said it was possible that i could use his account to get the screenshots we needed. then i asked him for his info. then he said no" ~AHKM 

      It wasn't her fault, correct me if i am wrong, if this was the case... Andy do you have a screenshot of what happened?

      We do not have full screenshots; however I know that she was asking for our information, as a favor like Andy had said. After I declined, I talked to Andy and we managed to bring up that AHKM had both asked us for this information. There was no way that we told her that she could use it before; rather, she instigated by coming to us first.

      I am voicing my opinion, and proving proof. 

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    • Whether we agreed to it or not, if no one contacted Wikia in regards to removing Chat Mod tools from Wiki Mod then they are still connected. That becomes a different matter altogether and one that shouldn't be discussed here.

      This thread is about the credibility of AHKM as Chat Mod and Wiki Mod... I agree with Justin on this. To say she isn't trusted with one position filters in to her being trusted with another. I have seen enough of her behavior to support the demotion of both positions regardless of whether two separate threads are opened or not.

      All of this evidence is coming from chat because that's where the most evidence can be gathered. It's hard to "harass" a user, without anyone else knowing, on the wiki without being in chat and in PM... But that policy is a Wiki policy... in fact that is the first point under "User Conduct" under Wikia's Terms of Service. Repeatedly telling a user to make a complaint about another user, using evidence that has been stated as being resolved is, at least in my opinion, harassment. It is clear to me, that at least in one instance, AHKM has harassed a user. She continued to push Eddie to opening a complaint thread against Wiz even after Eddie clearly stated that the issue she was wanting him to use was resovled. That is harassment. To harass: to trouble, torment, or confuse by continual persistent attacks, questions, etc

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
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      17:11, May 18, 2013
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    • Dragon trip
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    • ^Erm... sorry? This is on topic, because it is the main reason why I am disagreeing with the Removal of Wiki Mod and Chat Mod Rights from AllHailKingMe. I cannot agree with a removal of two tools at once, seems pretty much on topic for me.

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    • ^Well it seems like at least I forgot about it, I thought it was considered done.

      See it this way: Consider you are in this case, the person gets demoted for both chat mod and wiki mod because they are linked. A week later the policies get changed to have the two functions not linked anymore, which would mean that if this thing happened a week later you might still have wiki mod tools.

      I never said to stop the discussion, but to keep it on hold. But there are more ways this could be done.

      We could simply hold two votes, if AHKM gets downvoted at both votes then there is nothing to discuss (except changing the policy for future cases).

      If AHKM gets downvoted at only chatmod we could demote her for both functions right now, and if we consider in the near future that wiki mod doesn't include chat mod tools anymore, we could simply give ahkm the rights for wiki mod again.

      Even if we don't follow these steps, what is the problem with holding two votes?

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    • @Crtha, yes others do it but she is the one the discussion thread is about, not the other users, an more to the point, what she sent me in pm was absolutly unacceptable, you can not do that in chat if ur a mod, im sorry but it is unacceptable

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    • Dragon trip
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      17:13, May 18, 2013
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    • Essiw- I think yuo didn't check all the solid proofs the community has layed out. Whether or not the two positions are linked together, all the complaints are pointed out for both Wiki modding and Chat modding.

      If I am in this case, where everyone linked all their overhwleming concerns to me about me wiki moderating and chat moderating, I wouldn't have anything to say too. Maybe that's why AHKM hasn't talked once since yesterday, and even asked Crthatha to relay her voice out. (which is BTW a violation on the NO OTHER USER behaviour). 

      If we did change our policies right after this demotion process, then this won't affect this thread anyway. The concerns are not only for 1 of her positions, they're for both positions.

      That is why I said I will make 2 separate voting forums for AHKM's positions. Meaning, I don't have a problem with holding two votes at the same time (for each positions). ~

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    • I did read all of the solid proof, which were nearly all chat screenshots, of things happened in chat. I have held all positions this wiki has, except for bureaucrat and I can say that the wiki world and the chat world are two different world, at least they were for me. The reason why I would like two votes is because I see in this thread that a lot is about her way of acting in chat and not on the wiki. I also want these discussions to be as fair as possible, where I agree or not with it doesn't influence that, because I would like the same to have happened if it were me standing here. While you could see the thing that has happened with Crthatha (which I agree should not be done as a chatmod), it is still about the chat function and happening in chat. There is no PM system where this could be done on the wiki itself.

      There is no rule saying how often you need to respons to this thread, since this thread is quite big, it could take a lot of time simply reading it, let alone making a response.

      But since we agree with having two votes, I don't think this will need to continue here :)

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
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      17:14, May 18, 2013
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    • After reading through the thread and giving it thought. I do not support the demotion of AHKM. 

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    • EDIT: I have been given visual evidence from many people...so I support the demotion of AHKM...Sorry.

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    • Frost786™ wrote:
      AndyKhaos wrote:

      In regards to asking for personal information (emails and gamecenter id's and even passwords): This is one issue that concerns me dearly. I have been personally approached by AllHailKingMe in the past and she has asked for my GCID and password. As for her intentions, she wanted to update the DV Wiki’s pedestal pictures using the latest iPad. This question made me extremely uncomfortable because I felt it was my duty as a staff member to help the Wiki, but I didn’t want to disclose any personal information. After discussing the matter with an admin who shall remain unnamed, I came to the conclusion that it would simply be unacceptable.

      (sometime in February 2013) I must add that later she had approached me through another user, asking me the same as she wanted from Andy. I also had similar thoughts, and had to ponder for quite a duration before finally declining, simply because my GCID is also my iTunes information. I feel that this violated the policies of not asking for another's personal information as well.


      AndyKhaos wrote:

      In regards to asking for personal information (emails and gamecenter id's and even passwords): In regards to solicitation: In addition to asking for personal information, AllHailKingMe has also approached me to raise donations for a personal cause. I personally feel that asking for donations from users on a 13+ Wiki is highly unethical. Not only does it implement a conflict of interest with a staff member position, but it also makes one question where a user’s true intentions lie. AllHailKingMe then stated that other users have been approached and she hopes to reach to target amount.

      AHKM also approached me about this, asking for a donation. I declined as well, feeling that it was not something she should bring on the wiki and may also break policies of the wiki.

      I can also testify that the second concern is one i too share, as she asked me for donations for her friend.

      AHKM has also asked for my real GC which is my father's (:/ i made my own gc after i started dragonvale and i had a good lead so...) and it made me rather uncomfortable. 

      She aslo sent me out to try and get other users' game center id's and they have expressed their concerns above. 

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    • Soda786™
      Soda786™ removed this reply because:
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      19:58, May 16, 2013
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    • I do have reasoning for my decision above...

      I do recall one time in which I was banned (for a day I think) for spamming words (when nobody was on chat...) (the spam goes to that I posted about 5 (I think) lines of text). I was then banned when I returned to visit chat...When I asked for why I was banned the reason (provided by AHKM) was for saying the word "Phoop" in chat (which happened days ago). I do admit I deserved a kick for the spam...but certainly not a ban...

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    • @Soda, There is no rule that a chat mod should kick before a ban right now, the chat mod should warn you before the ban though.

      The rule right now says: "Warn someone before banning, through verbal communication, kicks, or a combination."

      At the time of your bans 12 and 19 february the rule was even written differently:

      "Warn someone before banning (kicks count as warnings)"



      So while you may think a kick was better, I don't think it does matter in this case.

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    • Although if you look at Chat Moderators this would have fallen under a Level 2 violation. In which, even dating back to September 2012, stated that a kick should preceed a ban. And for minor infractions multiple warnings (whether in the form of verbal warnings or kicks) of three to five should be issued before a ban. I don't know the details, but a kick should preceed a ban for level 2 violations (general spamming is, in most cases, considered a level 2 violation).

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      I am thinking, and I will let AHKM, explain herself, on why she deserves to stay as wiki mod/chat mod.

      I approve of the demotion, but I agree with Crthatha that AHKM should have a chance to defend herself. In my opinion we shouldn't demote someone without giving them a chance to explain themself. 

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    • I support the demotion.

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    • CAW24 wrote:
      Crthatha786™ wrote:
      I am thinking, and I will let AHKM, explain herself, on why she deserves to stay as wiki mod/chat mod.
      I approve of the demotion, but I agree with Crthatha that AHKM should have a chance to defend herself. In my opinion we shouldn't demote someone without giving them a chance to explain themself. 

      We are giving her a chance to explain... this thread is just that. It's the chance for the community to express concerns for or against her behavior while allowing her to explain/defend her actions.

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    • If AHKM is demoted will anyone take her place? If so, then who? Or will there be a vote?

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    • There is no "specific" individual really because nominations/discussions/voting for all staff positions are open, even right now.

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    • I'm sorry, AHKM, but after reading all this, I just feel that the evidence against you is irrefutable. Unfortunately, I support her demotion. :(

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    • CAW24 wrote:
      Crthatha786™ wrote:
      I am thinking, and I will let AHKM, explain herself, on why she deserves to stay as wiki mod/chat mod.
      I approve of the demotion, but I agree with Crthatha that AHKM should have a chance to defend herself. In my opinion we shouldn't demote someone without giving them a chance to explain themself. 

      This IS her chance to defend herself. 

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    • Wow. I haven't been active on the wiki in the past few weeks. I didn't want to have to come back to an issue like this. But, I am aware that issues with AHKM have come up before, and after reading the overwhelming evidence against her displayed here, I regretfully have to say that I support AHKM's demotion. :( I didn't want it to have to come to this either, but I'll do what I have to for the good of the wiki.

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    • After reading through all the above posts, it seems that sufficient evidence has been presented to prove the majority of charges. And I believe that in the above, while most of the proof deals with chat, some of the pre-release info and images that were linked to in chat were posted on the Wiki, which - regardless of whether Chat and Wiki Mod are linked or separate - would violate rules for both positions.

      AHKM still has plenty of time to respond to any additional evidence and posts, and this only leads up to a vote, at which time all the evidence can be compiled and weighed by everyone to determine whether demotion is voted through or not.

      Therefore, I support the demotion process.

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    • I need to jump in here on the discussions of separating this thread and whether or not Wiki Mod positions should not include Chat Mod.

      There was some discussion of removing Chat Mod rights from Wiki Mod. However, there was never a vote on that topic. The only things changed from our original approved processes was the selection and voting/vetting process. There was never a thing to forget to ask Wikia to do-we never voted on that at all. We made a clear distinction in the full voting that we were modifying the selection process.

      We have at times discussed separating these positions, but the thread Bane linked was the discussion thread about the selection process, and it did not include separating the roles.

      HOWEVER-that has nothing to do with why this forum is combined. That arises from the fact the the complainant (Wiz) has asked that both Wiki Mod AND Chat Mod rights be removed. There is no policy indicating that if a user has multiple roles, a demotion discussion has to be opened separately for each. What would be any different in those discussions?

      I had already planned, if this moves to a vote, to have the voting options being "Remove Wiki Mod", "Remove Chat Mod", "Remove Neither" and "Remove Both". In the event the community supported AHKM as a Wiki Mod and not a Chat Mod, I would contact Wikia on what options we might have to allow the ability to retain Wiki Mod without Chat Mod. Since they have to add separate rights, I'm not sure that will be an issue.

      I would ask users, also, to go back to the original post and review the rules of this discussion. I have observed (and removed) posts that do not comply with these rules. I have observed a Non-Admin user editing another user's post, which is not FOR ANY REASON, allowed. I'm going to spend some time going through each post and determine if others don't belong here-there is a lot of off topic discussion.

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    • I'd like the idea of having Wikia mod but not chat mod...but idk if that's possible.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      off topic; covered
      17:15, May 18, 2013
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    • Meh, I wanna write stuff. 


      First off, I dont see why her actions only pertain to Chat Mod just because it was IN chat that these things occurred. That would be like saying if she was encouraging a user on their wall to tell on another user or asking for passwords on the user's wall that we would just strip her Wiki Mod and leave the chat mod. What sense does that make? Her acts are the same nevertheless where on the wiki they took place... :L


      Since the Wiki Mod and Chat Mod positions are still linked apparently. I don't see why we need to make two different discussions, lol. Plus, the two main points (Asking for passwords/Encouraging users to tell on another) at hand may just bring her down on both ends just because of the way she behaved on each of them, regardless of location on the wiki.


      Also, Im still confused on the whole combined Wiki Mod and CHat Mod at the moment. Wiki Mod and Chat Mod: Are they supposed to be combined or what? Seems like they are supposed to be combined at the moment but I just want to clarify.


      That's 'bout it.

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    • Since several users have been in conversations with me, and have provided evidence, I will remain neutral for the time being. I believe there were several screen shots provided, although I have talked with AHKM, I am still not convinced enough to support either side. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I shall have a choice made by the time it is time to vote.

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    • On the topic of pre-release content, I have always supported the policy that we not discuss it or post it based on this policy (it is ours and Wikia's) indicating that Wikia users may not:

      "Post any illegal or unauthorized content or use for any illegal or unauthorized purposes"

      Pre-released content, to me, clearly falls under "Unauthorized Content".

      Whether we agree with this as our current policy or not, it is our policy. The times I have spoken to AHKM about posting pre-release content in pages (Kairos) her comment was along the lines of "well, we should change the rule". Again, whether she likes the rule or not, I would expect a Wiki Mod or a Chat Mod to observe it.

      I have no concerns with how AHKM uses her ban/kick tools in chat. A couple of times, where it felt that bans might be excessive, I spoke with her. She either had a valid reason for an extended ban or agreed with me that it could be modified. Even if she made some mistakes, all of us likely have, since we don't have extremely clear rules for all of our "bans/blocks". The Chat Mod rules are the clearest, and in my personal experience, AHKM usually follows those guidelines.

      Asking users for passwords, coercing users to lie, posting pre-release content, discussing pre-release content in chat (and not only in PM's) are all things that would likely get unregistered users or less well-known users banned or blocked. Some of these behaviors are awful, to me, and to think we, as a community, would have staff members who would do any one of them on a somewhat regular basis, is a bad feeling.

      I support moving this to a demotion thread to remove staff rights-I will vote for which (most likely both) role should be changed after I open the voting forum. (I do realize that some users may change their minds between now and then, but as of now it appears there is sufficient support to move to that decision).

      I believe that the behavior documented throughout this topic by several users speaks to AHKM's inability to show the requirements needed for a Wiki Mod above all. However, since both Chat Mod and Wiki Mod positions expect us to be "Mature, courteous, helpful", the behaviors described would be unacceptable whether they occur in chat or in the main wiki.

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    • i dont support

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    • After several months and viewing Eddie's and Wiz's new information, I don't believe that any of the rights she holds should be kept, whether the incidents occurred within or outside of chat. DT brings up a good point; had a regular user done what AHKM has done, they would have been blocked by now. Eddie's post showed something no staff should have committed anywhere on the wiki; regardless if they are admin or rollback.

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    • To bring up another point that has been mentioned. Spamming/Trolling.

      First, spamming. Though it may seem insignificant to some of the other infractions that have been pointed out; it is an infraction nonetheless.

      9. Spam. Anything. At all.

      Spam is the use of superfluous content that does not contribute to the current topic, attempts to change the topic, or disrupts the flow of conversation. Some examples of spam are: (i) advertisements; (ii) unnecessary code; (iii) "fake items" or other false articles; (iv) repetitive words, emotes, statements; (v) links (i.e. to personal blogs, profiles or external sites); (vi) vouching requests for staff position and (vii) excessive or unnecessary advertising of private messages (PM's) using words or ====> symbols.

      (iii) "fake items" or other false articles:

      http://i.imgur.com/VaSYSHX.png

      http://i.imgur.com/CCKj6sL.png

      In that second image, it is clear that a user did not realize that the article linked was a false article until they clicked on the link.


      (vii) excessive or unnecessary advertising of private messages (PM's) using words or ====> symbols. this has been a part of the chat policies since May 1st (the changes were highlighted by an Admin):

      This image was taken today May, 16:
      http://i.imgur.com/XyzxSwP.png
      There are two lines of AHKM announcing a PM less than a minute apart.

      Just general spam:

      http://i.imgur.com/9PKM0rU.png


      Secondly: Trolling.

      [slang  ( intr ) computing]  to post deliberately inflammatory articles on an internet discussion board; not only this definition, but it is also misleading and false information... i.e. lying. And can also fall under spam.

      Regardless of whether most "older" users know/see that it is a joke or not, newer users may not.

      http://i.imgur.com/wnTtpCx.png
      http://i.imgur.com/S23Eeyr.png
      http://i.imgur.com/O5bGUpz.png

      Had a new(er) user entered chat during that time, they could have misunderstood what was being said. Whether it was meant as a joke or not is not known as there was no clarification to either. Again, regardless of whether "older" users are aware of these types of "jokes" is beside the point when we do/can have a large influx of new(er) users entering chat at any point during the day (or night). Some are not unfamiliar with Wikia and know what the stars mean. Seeing those kind of statements coming from someone with a star (a symbol that marks staff in chat) might lead to the belief that what they are saying is true even when it isn't.

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    • Along with Celt's evidence, I'd like to submit some more of AHKM's spamming and trolling, two of the rules that she has allegedly broken in the original thread. (date and time are in photos, at the top right hand corner)

      Spamming

      This image (http://i.imgur.com/fTZ9IMT.png) shows AHKM giving a random spam link. Furthermore it was pointed out that the link was spam.

      Trolling

      The following images are shown where AHKM attempts to mislead or exacerbate the conversation.

      This first depicts AHKM speaking of the non-existant invisible dragon while others were having a conversation: http://i.imgur.com/TvaqL8i.png

      http://i.imgur.com/b7F9v0y.png

      In this screenshot, an admin asked for pages that should be important to the wiki that should be showned to new users as a guide. AHKM trolls using the Motley Dragon, and immediately following you can see another user who is not impressed.

      http://i.imgur.com/RXaND35.png

      Lastly, this photo portrays AHKM trolling by stating an improbable incident, most likely just to mess with other users. Again, as you you can see immediately following, other users of chat are not amazed by her actions.

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    • Apparently there has been some confusion in the communication about whether chat mod tools were still part of wiki mod. I thought it carried through to the vote, but if they weren't then I am confused since the idea was approved by majority in the thread.


      In regards to moving this discussion to vote. and since DT has now outlined the choices in vote to have a choice of "a" "b" "both" or "neither" system I will support moving this along to vote as many members of the community feel this is what is best for the wiki and there is proof which appears to show violations of one, if not both, of the positions in question. By having the vote as DT outlined it will be it will allow a fair chance for both roles to be voted on which is what I was looking for when I first posted; a fair trial.

      However, perhaps since wiki mod still has chat mod tools the topic of that should be revisited in a separate forum.

      As I am concerned, AHKM was voted into her roles by the community and it seems like multiple members of the community feel she has failed the institution of the positions by violating at least one of the rules multiple times which is grounds for this public discussion.


      @ AHKM, I feel like it should be noted though that you have made great contributions to this wiki especially through image uploads, and if the community decides to remove your wiki mod and/or chat mod rights I hope you will continue to contribute and help out the wiki.

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    • Essiw wrote:
      Eddie786™ wrote:
      Crtha if you feel that they are all glitches, ask ANY long time constant member about the "LYD realease" and how she knew about it and that it was a recolor before it was released.
      AHKM doesn't have anything to do with the release of the LYD, if I am correct it was Tatzel. That was the first time there was info taken out of the game files before something was released and it caused a big drama. It also made BF lock up all the dragon pictures in their game files so now no-one can open them anymore.

      There was nothing wrong with what Tatzel did back at the time, the reaction of the users on the news of a new epic dragon just went out of hand. This and the fact that it caused BF to lock up their system is one of the reasons we don't allow pre-released content on the wiki.

      Yes, I am the one who originally leaked LYD here, and while my intentions had only been to share the find with everyone else, the general reaction from the community and Backflip is what made us, myself included, decide that doing so is not something we should do again. Which is why we have the "no pre release content" rules.

      I know that's essentially what meow meow just said there, but I wanted to chime in and verify that since I was mentioned.


      Anyway I'm still reading through this, but I wanted to point out that for all the commentary about "well sometimes there's glitches and users do get content early," I do want to say that AHKM has been reminded time and time again (I know I have said something to her before) not to upload content unless something has been OFFICIALLY released (Meaning the content is available to everyone and not just a fraction of the playerbase for whatever reason, glitches included), and yet she still has uploaded content prior to release. So honestly I consider that glitch thing moot since AHKM has disregarded the rule about not uploading content prior to release multiple times that I'm aware of (and I see some evidence of a couple instances of this has been provided already). 

      Honestly, I don't think anyone here is saying that she hasn't contributed to the wiki, because she certainly has. But some of these things... |:

      wheezes, I'll keep watch on this

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    • I'm sorry AHKM but I've been thinking of your demotion before I've seen this poll. And trying to frame wiz....seriously?

      I support demotion because you've been warned several times and broke a number of policies.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      off topic
      17:16, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • I haven't posted much to this wiki - mostly I lurk, but in reading through all this one glaring point came to my mind, and I felt compelled to share this. AHKM, are you an employee of BFS? I do not believe so. Are you speciffically authorized to disseminate information about this game? I do not believe so. Have you done so? Yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the theft of information, for personal gain, without compensation, especially as it applies to software has a name.

      Piracy.

      I am a software developer. I do not work for BFS, but all the same I admire the hard work that went into their product. It is no easy task to create content on almost a weekly to monthly basis, and be able to integrate it into existing systems. This represents an investment of work and money on the part of BFS and the Dragonvale Team. Each update is anticipated by everyone - we all wanted to know what the daimond looked like going into last month - and it's this anticipation, that drives the interest in the game. Giving away the suprise, no matter how, or to who, is like shouting the end of a new movie while you are watching the previews. As a developer, I know how sometimes the work is its only reward.  The developers put a lot of hard work into this game, and it is only fair that they be the ones to come out with it's suprises.

      Never mind that this is also illegal. On other games, or with other business models such early disclosures could have cost the company considerable money and effort. If AHKM has access to the files, she did so in violation of BFS's rights to them. On other venues, or with other games, this would not be a discussion of a demotion vote.

      This would be a Ban.

      Never mind that I find the rest of her conduct deplorable and coercive. AHKM has bullied users and violated BFS,  I support the Demotion of AHKM.

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    • PQuicksilver wrote: I haven't posted much to this wiki - mostly I lurk, but in reading through all this one glaring point came to my mind, and I felt compelled to share this. AHKM, are you an employee of BFS? I do not believe so. Are you speciffically authorized to disseminate information about this game? I do not believe so. Have you done so? Yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the theft of information, for personal gain, without compensation, especially as it applies to software has a name.

      Piracy.

      You do not know what piracy is. Piracy is the unauthorized use or distribution of another person's work. What you described in your comment does not fit piracy at all. I believe what you are referring to is "leaked information" which is quite common as even I had a lot of information about updates before they came out, so what you described is not piracy in the least bit. With how you said it could cost the companies a lot of money, I don't think that saying "the LYD dragon is a recoloring of the rainbow dragon." Would not cost backflip studios any money what-so-ever.

      As I do understand where you are coming from, do a little more information on the subjects you type out before posting the comment.

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    • Regardless of whether chat mod and wiki mod roles are interlinked, AHKM appears to have breached the trust that was implicitly given to her in awarding either (or any) role within the DV wiki. I support a vote, and one that allows for all current roles to be stripped from AHKM

      Note: I have not said that I support the demotion (that's for the vote), merely that I support a vote taking place

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    • PQuicksilver wrote:
      I haven't posted much to this wiki - mostly I lurk, but in reading through all this one glaring point came to my mind, and I felt compelled to share this. AHKM, are you an employee of BFS? I do not believe so. Are you speciffically authorized to disseminate information about this game? I do not believe so. Have you done so? Yes. Ladies and Gentlemen, the theft of information, for personal gain, without compensation, especially as it applies to software has a name.

      Piracy.

      I am a software developer. I do not work for BFS, but all the same I admire the hard work that went into their product. It is no easy task to create content on almost a weekly to monthly basis, and be able to integrate it into existing systems. This represents an investment of work and money on the part of BFS and the Dragonvale Team. Each update is anticipated by everyone - we all wanted to know what the daimond looked like going into last month - and it's this anticipation, that drives the interest in the game. Giving away the suprise, no matter how, or to who, is like shouting the end of a new movie while you are watching the previews. As a developer, I know how sometimes the work is its only reward.  The developers put a lot of hard work into this game, and it is only fair that they be the ones to come out with it's suprises.

      Never mind that this is also illegal. On other games, or with other business models such early disclosures could have cost the company considerable money and effort. If AHKM has access to the files, she did so in violation of BFS's rights to them. On other venues, or with other games, this would not be a discussion of a demotion vote.

      This would be a Ban.


      Firstly, that doesn't have to do anything with the wiki, banning someone for doing something that has nothing to do with the wiki is nonsense... We would also need to ban a lot of our users if that was the correct way of doing it. Secondly I don't know where you got your info but it is not piracy and not illegal to view the source code of a game. That is saying like it is illegal to view the source code of a web page...

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    • ~=(iNate)=~
      ~=(iNate)=~ removed this reply because:
      does not further the discussion in a productive manner. moving off-topic... further discussion by others will also be removed.
      00:45, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • To Slim Jim and Essiw.

      I concede your point that a wiki ban for behavior concerning the game the wiki is about is inappropriate. Concerning my appelation of Piracy to the matters being addressed, weather "leaked information" fits into that category may be questioned. Therefore I withdraw those comments. 

      I still find the conduct towards other users of this wiki reprehensible, based on the screen caps as presented. Therefore I still support the vote for demotion

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    • Regardless of whether or not the "leaked information" falls under Piracy laws (which is questionable, and as I don't really know much about that I won't further comment on that point), it is still against Wiki policy. Whether a "glitch" was involved or not the pictures should not have been posted on the wiki until it was confirmed that the items/content was available for all players.

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    • I agree with Dragon Trip and also suppport removal of staff rights.  For the reasons given and just the general behaviour and demeanor of AHKM that I have witnessed over time, I do not feel she should continue to be a chat mod or have power over others.  It is clear to me that the priviledge has been abused.  No user should fear any staff member.  We should all have mutual respect for one another as users of this Wiki.   

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    • I have read all the comments to this thread thus far, and I feel that there is ample evidence that she has violated policies, and abused her authority. I, therefore support a vote to strip AHKM of her roles.

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    • I do not approve of AllHailKingMe's demotion.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      off topic; answered and prior post related to it was removed
      17:17, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • CelticStar87 wrote:
      Eddie786™ wrote:
      AHKM has tried to get me to lie and get a user in trouble, i dont appreciate this, look here  http://imgur.com/a/aIDQ9

      And that behaviour is unacceptable under any circumstances. I have no words...

      I have words. Despicable and Appalling!  That's the mildest objection I can make to a staff member trying to get someone to lie and frame another person to take the focus off of themselves.  I am sorry to say however, that I'm not surprised in the least.

      Edit: for clarity...

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    • In reference to "piracy" and "unauthorized use"-I have no issue with anyone having pre-release information. That is between them and BFS. I don't think posting the unauthorized content costs BFS money (hard to say; maybe a lawyer could find a way to show it) but as far as I know, that is not why Wikia (and DV Wiki) has a rule against posting unauthorized content.

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    • Hello everyone

      As a former chat moderator and a relatively well-known user in this community, I feel bad that this discussion is going on. Clearly, this is a controverial issue that invokes much emotion and debate.

      Here is how I feel:

      - I consider AllHailKingMe a friend here at the wiki community.

      - Without a doubt, AllHailKingMe is a valuable member of the DragonVale Wiki community. She is always around and has stood the test of time, even if a large portion of it is AFK.

      - AllHailKingMe is a helpful and funny person who has demonstrated compassion to those in need in and outside the game.

      - AllHailKingMe has also engaged in behavior that violates chat policies.

      One reason I stepped down as chat moderator last summer was because I did not feel I could give the time required of the position. Another reason is because I wanted the freedom to behave more loosely in ways I would not be able to in a position of responsibility. Is there a way for AllHailKingMe to be in a position of responsibility without moderator powers? I hope so, because she is an important contributor to the community. But given her conduct overall as a chat moderator for the past year, a change needs to be made. Perhaps in time, AllHailKingMe may reapply for the position. But at this time, I am in support of demotion just as I was in support of my own self-demotion last year.

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    • Soda786™ wrote:
      I do have reasoning for my decision above...

      I do recall one time in which I was banned (for a day I think) for spamming words (when nobody was on chat...) (the spam goes to that I posted about 5 (I think) lines of text). I was then banned when I returned to visit chat...When I asked for why I was banned the reason (provided by AHKM) was for saying the word "Phoop" in chat (which happened days ago). I do admit I deserved a kick for the spam...but certainly not a ban...

      and the thread itself http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:863294 (I don't have a snapshot..this thread is all I have)

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    • Reading all the comments has taken two days. It was difficult to digest all the information. The way the wiki has set up this process, there is a large mass of information on which to base taking mod privileges from AHKM. There has been no effective rebuttal. The scope of the complaints justify removal from both aspects of the mod position.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      off topic
      17:18, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Rianza33 wrote:
      CelticStar87 wrote:
      Eddie786™ wrote:
      AHKM has tried to get me to lie and get a user in trouble, i dont appreciate this, look here  http://imgur.com/a/aIDQ9

      And that behaviour is unacceptable under any circumstances. I have no words...


      I have words. Despicable and Appalling!  That's the mildest objection I can make to a staff member trying to get someone to lie and frame another person to take the focus off of themselves.  I am sorry to say however, that I'm not surprised in the least.  


      That is appaling. Sorry AHKM, but as I said before, the evidence is irrefutable.

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    • This is another example of where I spoke with AHKM after removing her pre-release images: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:856551

      This is an ongoing issue and does not connect to Chat Mod. It also does not specifically connect to Wiki Mod (as any user could add pre-release pics) but refusing to follow a policy is not acceptable staff behavior.

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    • It is good that the Wiki Mod / Chat Mod roles issue that Bane Cane mistakenly brought up was resolved. The roles were never split up, it was only discussed in a thread meant to address an actual change.

      There is much here that I could touch on but I really feel that enough has been said by enough users to display just how controversial this all can be... nevertheless, this will be long.

      AHKM is without a doubt a valuable user to this wiki, but then again: Every user is valuable.

      We should not discount her contributions but neither can we discount her behavior and policy infractions...

      Whether its repeated pre-release content, "jokes" (trolling) in chat, or the newly introduced evidence of attempted coercion of another user against another and the apparent attempt to gather GCID & Passwords from various users... they are all in direct opposition of what is expected of every user, regardless of their user rights group.

      It may be easy for a user to say they "don't mind" or they "don't care" about certain things, like (for example) not caring about pre-release content infractions - but the fact is... it is against this wiki's policies, either abide by them or find enough support and follow the proper procedure to get the policy amended...

      Most especially, users who hold a staff position should not speak against or show apathy towards policies of this wiki even if they personally do not agree with them. The policies have been implemented/approved by the community in majority or prior to major community involvement and policies are always able to be amended through appropriate methods.

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    • AHKM has done nothing mean to me, nor has she talked to me, so I'm neutral

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Not part of discussion
      04:19, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • The Lord of Sun and Shadow wrote:
      I don't support. I don't find AHKM quilty of the things Wiz has accused her of

      Right.

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    • I haven't seen AHKM do any of the things Wiz accuses her of doing, so until I see myself that she has done any of the above mentioned violations, I'll oppose the demotion...

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    • I agree with this demotion and disscution.

      --Edited. Uncapsed.  JustinDaOne. ~

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      not related to discussion
      16:56, May 18, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      not related to discussion
      15:09, May 19, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • I truthfully am not sure if I should vote here, but sorry AHKM. I have to support the demotion. I was very suddenly kicked from chat without warning.

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    • I oppose the demotion. AHKM has done many things for the wiki for quite a long time, has dealt with spammers in chat many times, and when she might have made a mistake, and wasn't there when a spammer was, you want to demote her?

      Ridiculous!

      I actually support her being in chat for a long, long time. It probably makes her the best mod that way. Even though she is on in small blocks of time, if you add them all up, it is probably much more time than other chat mods.

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    • Nexus, there were other objections brought up, not just the time frames.

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    • drago, while she may be present in chat all the time and all, like wiz said, we brought up several other "mistakes" that ahkm made.  We didn't just point out that she wasn't there for a spammer, she broke several policies as well.

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    • DragoNEX wrote:
      and when she might have made a mistake

      From my understanding from reading through all of the responses, the issue here isn't simply "[making] a mistake," it is the repeated breaking of wiki policies over a length of time. You haven't read through everyone's posts if you don't see that this is about more than one or two mistakes. I don't think this forum would even be up if that were the case.

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    • As I continued to follow this thread, I feel that I'd like to make my own opinion/feelings clear in regards to this thread. I am not, in any way, trying to discredit the good that AHKM has done here. I don't think that anyone can deny the good she has done for the Wiki especially when it comes to images and I have seen her deal fairly in chat. However, I can no longer witness the infractions that have been pointed out and do nothing. Her treatment of some users (and even towards fellow staff) is a disgrace; it's appalling, unnecessary, disrespectful, immoral, unethical... the list could go on. Her constant disregard for the policies of Chat and the Wiki (and Wikia), can no longer (and should no longer) be justified by the good she has done. I have no personal qualms with AHKM, we've rarely spoken but I have seen her break policies that any other user would have "paid" the consequences for. I cannot support AHKM as Chat or Wiki mod, regardless of the good work and dedication she has shown here. Simply because she has shown, in my honest opinion, a clear disregard for the policies that have been established on the Wiki and at times has, again in my honest opinion, shown a disrespect for fellow staff members and fellow Wikians.

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    • Aeroknife34 wrote:
      I truthfully am not sure if I should vote here, but sorry AHKM. I have to support the demotion. I was very suddenly kicked from chat without warning.

      Aeroknife34, unless you got an alert indicating you were kicked by AllHailKingMe, you may have just had an internet issue. She does not generally just kick people with no reason or warning, nor do any mods unless there is a very bad situation that needs to be handled quickly.

      You can certainly support or not in relation to a demotion, but please take care that you are not making an assumption about someone here.

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    • TheWizardz786™
      TheWizardz786™ removed this reply because:
      cleared up.
      15:34, May 19, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Here's another reason why I support denomination.

      When the Perch Of Kairos was released by an error by BFS, AHKM asked me if I knew anything about the game files in DV. This is against the rules. I am also aware that she explained the 3 parts of the Perch of Kairos before it was officially released

      However,I, like Celtic, am not saying that AHKM has not done anything good in this Wiki. She has helped this wiki in numerous occasions. However, my feelings of demotion will not be changed because of this.

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    • I do not support the demotion of AHKM. I think she is an amazing, helpful member.

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    • We can all agree that has been helpful :)

      just scroll up and do a little reading, if you would like, stardarkness.

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    • I may be a little late for voting but I would support demotion.

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    • this is not a vote..more of a dicussion. the vote will start on thursday, i believe. 

      edit: The vote will only start if, at the end of the discussion on Wednesday, there are 5 or more users who state they support moving to a vote.

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    • Oh okay. Then it was just a post of my opinion, as others have been stating up top. If I need to go into detail of my reasoning please let me know.

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    • Missy, you are fine as is; adding more or not is up to you.

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    • CelticStar87 wrote:
      To bring up another point that has been mentioned. Spamming/Trolling.

      First, spamming. Though it may seem insignificant to some of the other infractions that have been pointed out; it is an infraction nonetheless.

      9. Spam. Anything. At all.

      Spam is the use of superfluous content that does not contribute to the current topic, attempts to change the topic, or disrupts the flow of conversation. Some examples of spam are: (i) advertisements; (ii) unnecessary code; (iii) "fake items" or other false articles; (iv) repetitive words, emotes, statements; (v) links (i.e. to personal blogs, profiles or external sites); (vi) vouching requests for staff position and (vii) excessive or unnecessary advertising of private messages (PM's) using words or ====> symbols.

      (iii) "fake items" or other false articles:

      If this means anything - i caught another example, just a few minutes ago!

      http://i.imgur.com/sVxy2Fh.png

      According to: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:714020 , tossing around blank messages is still considered spam, and when i did it a while back, i recieved a ban.

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    • TheWizardz786™ wrote:
      CelticStar87 wrote:
      To bring up another point that has been mentioned. Spamming/Trolling.

      First, spamming. Though it may seem insignificant to some of the other infractions that have been pointed out; it is an infraction nonetheless.

      9. Spam. Anything. At all.

      Spam is the use of superfluous content that does not contribute to the current topic, attempts to change the topic, or disrupts the flow of conversation. Some examples of spam are: (i) advertisements; (ii) unnecessary code; (iii) "fake items" or other false articles; (iv) repetitive words, emotes, statements; (v) links (i.e. to personal blogs, profiles or external sites); (vi) vouching requests for staff position and (vii) excessive or unnecessary advertising of private messages (PM's) using words or ====> symbols.

      (iii) "fake items" or other false articles:

      If this means anything - i caught another example, just a few minutes ago!

      http://i.imgur.com/sVxy2Fh.png

      According to: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:714020 , tossing around blank messages is still considered spam, and when i did it a while back, i recieved a ban.

      What I find funny is that I was banned 1 hour for the EXACT THING AHKM DID HERSELF (http://i.imgur.com/sVxy2Fh.png! I was also posting blank messages and stuff...and she banned me..!!! What's the point of her banning people for these offenses when she just did this offense herself? 

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    • I support AHKM's demotion.

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    • frowns loudly

      I want to point out Wiz, the only reason you got a ban for that is because you and others were spamming empty messages, I gave a warning to stop and you and I think someone else did it again anyway.

      But yes, posting messages that lack any content is spam.

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    • I would also like to bring up a point that Wiz originally mentioned in his list of complaints. AHKM has harassed Wiz as he attempted to bring up earlier. Below I have a gallery of multiple incidents where this has occurred. Please note the dates on many of these photos, as you can see that this did not happen over the course of merely a day or a week, but several weeks consistently. Some are as recent as just before this thread had started:

      http://imgur.com/a/K6YX4

        Loading editor
    • Frost786™ wrote:
      I would also like to bring up a point that Wiz originally mentioned in his list of complaints. AHKM has harassed Wiz as he attempted to bring up earlier. Below I have a gallery of multiple incidents where this has occurred. Please note the dates on many of these photos, as you can see that this did not happen over the course of merely a day or a week, but several weeks consistently. Some are as recent as just before this thread had started:

      http://imgur.com/a/K6YX4

      There was so much evidence I eventually got tired! Woah! Imagine the things we haven't taken a picture of. I think this is evidence enough...and some of that could potentially be viewed as rude...and hostile.

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    • Frost786™ wrote:
      http://imgur.com/a/K6YX4

      Uh, seriously? I can kind of understand where the claim is coming from (but more along the lines of insulting and not specifically harassment) but frankly I would argue much of that is not harassment and is more nitpicking than anything.

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    • Tatz - if it were once or twice it would have been okay..but it happened so many times that it just became whatever it is now. 

      Edit: I also asked her to stop several times in private message(s) and even once or twice in main chat~

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    • Tatzelwyrm wrote:
      Frost786™ wrote:
      http://imgur.com/a/K6YX4
      Uh, seriously? I can kind of understand where the claim is coming from (but more along the lines of insulting and not specifically harassment) but frankly I would argue much of that is not harassment and is more nitpicking than anything.

      I disagree. The fact that I know that she was told to be stopped tells me that this isn't just fun and games. Especially since these screenshots were over the span of weeks. 

        Loading editor
    • I'm not arguing that. And I'm not doubting your claims. My point is that the images in the link provided are not sufficient enough to prove anything. It's very weak evidence. I do not see any "harassment" when I look at those images.

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    • I agree with Tatz. I'm pretty sure that snapshots such as Frost's http://imgur.com/a/K6YX4 isn't really a matter of harrassing...more like a running joke. Personally, I don't think we should focus on reasons like this for demotion, but other stuff. I'm not really sure AHKM is much of a Spammer/Harrasser.

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    • Frost786™ wrote:
      I disagree. The fact that I know that she was told to be stopped tells me that this isn't just fun and games. Especially since these screenshots were over the span of weeks. 

      Then that needs to be shown. As it is, the images you have chosen still remain weak evidence. As I said, those are more along the lines of nitpicking than actual harassment. The most I see AHKM doing in those images is being rude to Wiz, and rudeness is not harassment.

      Look, I don't agree with some of the things AHKM has done any more than most of the rest of us here, but I am not going to accept those images as proof of "harassment" because it's not.

        Loading editor
    • We really are not looking for evidence here; users are expressing their concerns. If a user interprets what he saw as harassment, I think we just need to respect that, even if it doesn't persuade us (as individual users) to vote against a staff member.

        Loading editor
    • Tatzelwyrm wrote:
      Frost786™ wrote:
      I disagree. The fact that I know that she was told to be stopped tells me that this isn't just fun and games. Especially since these screenshots were over the span of weeks. 
      Then that needs to be shown. As it is, the images you have chosen still remain weak evidence. As I said, those are more along the lines of nitpicking than actual harassment. The most I see AHKM doing in those images is being rude to Wiz, and rudeness is not harassment.

      Look, I don't agree with some of the things AHKM has done any more than most of the rest of us here, but I am not going to accept those images as proof of "harassment" because it's not.

      Umm..rudeness can be considered harassment...depending on what the person being "ruded" to feels about it...if Wiz feels it's rude..it could be harassment...especially if he's told AHKM to stop...

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    • Everyone seems to be missing the entire point of my disagreement: those images do not support the claims being made. I am not saying AHKM doesn't or hasn't done the things she is being accused of. I just do not see the claims of harassment in those images.

        Loading editor
    • I agree with tatz, if that is considered harrasement then I am doing loads of that stuf too...

        Loading editor
    • You may or may not consider that harassment... however...

      "to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute." (taken from dictionary.com for Harass)

      If Wiz has, in fact, asked AHKM to stop and she didn't that is harassment. I'm not saying that this is strong evidence of that nor am I saying it's weak evidence. If she was asked to stop and she continues it is, by definition, harassment... may not be as severe as some other forms of harassment, unlike what we are so used to thinking what harassment is, but it is a form nonetheless. It's one thing to joke like that and then stop when asked to do so; but to continue, as I've said already (and I don't like repeating myself but I will), it becomes harassment. Jokes can be taken too far and the respectful thing to do is to stop when asked to stop. Regardless of whether it is harassment, it is still disrespectful, insulting, and rude (especially if Wiz asked her to stop).

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    • @Essiw

      While it may or may not be harassment, I'd like to point out one last thing. When you guys make fun of each other in chat, I can tell that it is merely fun and very light hearted. I don't know if it's because you are viewing screenshots and not actually seeing it in chat, but when I saw these messages going back and forth, there was nothing playful about it; it was caustic, bitter and tense. In addition, the main reason why AHKM has done all of this is because Wiz no longer wanted to be forced to screenshot and photoshop for her; previously I have never seen AHKM ridiculed him in this way before in main. 

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    • @Frost, I cannot say anything about this, because I only saw this kind of talk between the two once. But if it did continue to go on and Wiz asked her to stop then I agree that she should have dropped the playfull/harrasement (not sure how to name it) talk.

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    • So could this just be a joke, like she is just messing around with him, because thats what it seems like.

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    • If someone asks you to stop and you don't, it is not funny and NOT a joke

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Not about Wiz
      00:11, May 22, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Discussion is not about Wiz
      00:11, May 22, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Again, Wiz can speak for himself
      00:12, May 22, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      This is not about Wiz; he can speak for himself
      00:12, May 22, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      Kettlecog wrote:
      If someone asks you to stop and you don't, it is not funny and NOT a joke
      If Wiz had a problem, why didnt he complain to an admin earlier?

      Just to clear things up, i have.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Discussion is not about action Wiz took
      00:14, May 22, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • Frost786™ wrote:
      @Essiw

      While it may or may not be harassment, I'd like to point out one last thing. When you guys make fun of each other in chat, I can tell that it is merely fun and very light hearted. I don't know if it's because you are viewing screenshots and not actually seeing it in chat, but when I saw these messages going back and forth, there was nothing playful about it; it was caustic, bitter and tense. In addition, the main reason why AHKM has done all of this is because Wiz no longer wanted to be forced to screenshot and photoshop for her; previously I have never seen AHKM ridiculed him in this way before in main. 

      I believe that it was harassment SOLELY because Wiz has told AHKM to stop doing this...and yet she still did it...(so that is harassment) similar to what Celtic's definition of harassment is. 

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    • IMHO, whether you regard it as harrassment or not, the point is that a staff member was repeatedly making a person feel uncomfortable even after being asked to stop.  This is not proper behavior for anyone, let alone a staff member.  This is not a "mistake" or a "misunderstanding" of the kind we all make from time to time.  If I am teasing someone, thinking they enjoy it and they tell me they don't enjoy it and to please stop and I continue...there are all sorts of names for that kind of behavior...pick your fav!  That is bad enough.  But when staff do these things it is even worse.  Staff must live to a bit of a higher standard. They are in a position of trust.   AHKM continued making Wiz uncomfortable and upset and did not stop even after being asked repeatedly. A regular user would have been kicked or banned for this behavior.  

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    • FYI, I removed several posts where others where indicating action Wiz should have taken. As detailed in the rules of this discussion, users should speak for themselves, so asking why Wiz did or did not do something does not belong here, nor do guesses on his reasons for taking (or not taking) any action.

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    • I was reading when i came across: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:927674

      Specifically when:

      AllHailKingMe Wrote: 
      Since we're speaking about what's better. A better response would have been not making the thread at all. Sometimes you have to think about what's best for the wiki, and a boring, generic wordmark is certainly not best for it.

      When i stated earlier (maybe on an older thread) that AHKM does not embody the sense of "community" it is statments like these that support that claim. 

      Edit: Wrong Link!

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    • I would like to voice my opinion, although to be quite honest, I don't really want to be invlolved in this. And yes, I know, that is a little contradictory.

      I would like to acknowledge AHKM's contributions for the wiki, which I thank her for, but as Nate said, we can't ignore her other actions.

      Unlike AHKM claims, I believe that she is guilty of the majority, if not all, of what she is being accused of right now. I find it even more troubling that the way I see it, AHKM cannot concede to (basically) anything that she is accused of. It seems to me that she has to find a way to make it invalid, and sometimes even twist it and use it against her accuser. This makes me question her honesty. I would be able to understand this if AHKM was legitmately trying to prevent lies from being spread about her, but to be honest, from what I've seen, I highly doubt this is the case.

      At this point, unless I can be convinced otherwise, I support AHKM's demotion.

      ~Halo

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    • It just seems like all of this stuff from one person is WAY too much drama than a simple Wiki needs.

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    • I am currently supporting the demotion process, especially due to Eddie's screenshots, and am ready for a vote.

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    • Pickle786™ wrote:
      I am currently supporting the demotion process, especially due to Eddie's screenshots, and am ready for a vote.

      same with me.

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    • I'm also supporting the demotion and ready for the vote...

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    • So, I'm going over this entire thread, and there are 250 posts. I want to come back and summarize all of the policy issues originially established in the first thread for anyone wanting to view or review quickly:

      To sum it up for me, I believe that AHKM has been helpful to our community and appricate the work she has produced for the wiki. However, there are multiple problems that have been addressed that have occurred over a long period of time that simply are repeated constantly that breaks chat and wiki policies. I have witnessed myself the continued issues and her occasional treatment of other users and cannot support her continuing to be a Moderator.

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    • I wanted to wait until everyone put forward all of their complaints about me.

      @Everyone:

      First, the Eddie issue. HE came to me saying he wanted to help "against Wiz." His words. Not mine. We, in fact, had many private msgs about it, not just the one he posted screenshots of. To those of you who think this is untrue, I pose a question to you: How did I get this screenshot? (http://i.imgur.com/ZQRnelc.jpg) HE gave it to me. He came to me because he was being harassed by Wiz. He told me that he wanted to post on Justin's wall about it because I could not bring it up in my concerns about Wiz, but he didn't know what to write. So I offered to write it for him. Halfway through, he changed his mind (for what reason? I still don't know) and now he's making it seem like I forced him.

      Further proof that Eddie wanted ME to help HIM:

      1. http://i.imgur.com/7guCOEv.png

      2. http://i.imgur.com/813BPEM.png

      (Note: Even though I am using a screenshot of Wiz and Eddie, it is not my intention to turn this into a discussion about them. I only provided the screenshots as proof that Eddie came to me to help keep the vote from happening. Not the other way around.)



      Retaliation: A few of you have said that I am only retaliating. You do not provide reasons for why this is not acceptable behavior. You only speak vaguely negatively against it. Either way, I am going to clear this issue up. I am NOT retaliating against anyone. As I said in many posts now, I was already prepared to start a thread about Wiz's behavior in and out of chat. Wiz simply made it to posting his concerns first. I should not be penalized for going second.

      However, even in the case that it was retaliation (which it is not), would that change the issue? Look at it this way. If someone files an obviously untrue lawsuit against you, would you not counter sue? Is that behavior negative to any of you? I don't think so. And I am well within my rights to speak against my accuser(s). Especially if I'm using it to support my own case.

      Also, isn't it strange that all of this took place conveniently right after Wiz failed to be nominated for mod? If my expression of concerns of Wiz is seen as retaliation, then why aren't his actions seen as retaliation? Angry that he didn't get a nomination? Jealousy? Who knows. Just saying that the timing is odd.



      Pre-release Content: As many users have stated, I was not involved in the LYD content. Further proof that many (if not all) of your accusations against me are completely unfounded and made up.

      However, it is true that I put up pictures of the Perch. But if you actually look at the pictures, they are IN-GAME. How is it pre-release content if it's already in the game? It was only AFTER we found out that it was a glitch, that the pictures were taken down.

      Storage Tower: It is true that I spoke about the Storage Tower. Many people on android had gotten it "early." However, we did not know it was "early" until later. At that time, I then stopped speaking about it.

      Terradiem Dragon: Many of you have not seen the discussion between Wiz and I about the Terradiem Dragon. Many users were in the chat when the game updated unexpectedly and a few of us were able to breed the Terradiem Dragon. In the first few minutes of the update, it was not only possible to breed the Terradiem Dragon, but you could also hatch it. The dragon was invisible in its habitat, but you could still access the dragonbox info screen for a few seconds before the game had an internal error.

      As for the PMs: Every screenshot you've seen of me discussing pre-release content in PMs or heard of me discussing it has been entirely solicited. Every single user has either told me to keep them updated or has PMed me first to find out if anything new was coming. I have yet to see any screenshot of me speaking about pre-release content in the main chat. Obviously, because I haven't.

      Giant Habitats: Many of you seem to think that because people talk about wanting something in the game, that it's automatically talking about pre-release content. Users have been speaking about wanting bigger habitats for a long time. Not a single one of you has a screenshot of me announcing giant habitats as coming to Dragonvale in main chat. Again, because I never did it.

      Rose Dragon: It comes to no surprise to any of you that when Backflip posts a new dragon on Facebook, that image is immediately uploaded here. No one deletes it. No one complains. The dragon isn't even in the game yet, but the Facebook image is not only allowed, it's usually encouraged to be put up.

      I got bored waiting for the Rose Dragon to come out so I decided to just photoshop it from the Facebook image. I then uploaded that to the wiki. Apparently Facebook images are allowed, but if I crop the dragon out of them, that's against the rules?

      Also, what are the rules concerning talking about dragons not released in-game but announced on Facebook? Is that not allowed? I have yet to see anyone get kicked/banned/demoted for that.

      The worst thing about all of this, is that I spoke to DT about all of these things when they happened. She KNOWS they are not pre-release content and yet still accuses me of it. :\



      Emails, Passwords, and Private Life: I have only asked for emails and passwords when it was solicited or there was some sort of discussion first.

      For example, Crtha volunteered to help me so it was only logical that I ask for her email. I asked Andy for help with pictures and told him what I needed (in this case his gamecenter name and password). This is not against the rules. He can say no, and that's the end of it. I never forced nor harassed anyone to give me personal information.

      @Andy: Although this does not include only you, I am absolutely shocked that you would bring my personal life into this. YOU have personally come to me in private msgs multiple times asking me for updates on my personal life that we discussed.

      @Everyone Else: The same goes for you too. Although you may not have been as active as Andy was, it was still solicited and you therefore have no right to complain or use it against me.



      Crtha: Some of you have said that Crtha was speaking for me, and I want to make it clear that she was not. We were talking in PM about issues and she chose to copy and paste some of my answers. In no way did I tell her to do this.



      Harassment: The most that Wiz has said about this is my "you're fired" jokes. I am NOT the only one who has done this. As I have previously stated many times, a lot of us are fans of the Celebrity Apprentice and we joke around about it.

      As for every other screenshot that Wiz or anyone else posted: None of it is harassment. Even those of you who think it's rude behavior (which it is not), it is not against the rules. If you do not like it, then start a forum thread to make a rule about it. Otherwise, I have broken no rule here.

      A few of you have posted screenshots of me just talking in chat claiming it's harassment, spam, or whatever when it's clearly not. Either your problems that go way deeper than this or you're just mindlessly blending in with the crowd.



      Trolling: I have yet to see any proof of this. The most you've put forward is a screenshot where I say I got 8 Bouquet Dragons out of 8 tries. This is what you consider trolling? I suggest you look up the definition of a troll again…



      General Spamming: I rarely ping anyone. In fact, I hardly speak in chat. How can I possibly be abusing the ping system? That's simple logic.

      As for empty links, this is not against the rules. Spamming multiple empty links would be spamming. Most recently, people were talking about cicadas. I jokingly put a link to a Cicada Dragon. Again, this is not against the rules and many users do this. It is especially not even close to a reason to demote someone.

      On the topic of "spaces," sometimes chat lags out and I (and other users as well) will type a space or "test" or something of that nature to make sure chat is still working. This is not spam.



      @Dragon trip:

      (Note: I feel terrible that I would actually have to clarify this, but if I don't, it will be immaturely deleted: I fully understand this thread is about me and not DT. I am simply using this section to make the situation clear to everyone.)

      This is petty even for you. Everything Wiz said in his "Concerns about a Chat/Wiki Moderator" thread was completely false and he had no proof against me. Not only that, even after you yourself corrected him on almost every single rule he believed I broke, you still allowed him to carry on with the discussion as if his claims were still valid. (For everyone else, see thread: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:943058 Notice how many times Wiz is wrong about the rules and DT herself corrects him.) Then after every single piece of "proof" that he had against me was easily disproved, somehow it still went to a demotion thread. This is obviously something personal and unfair to everyone else on the wiki, not just myself.

      Speaking of unfairness, I then tried to bring concerns up about Wiz in a separate thread. This is the part where you say that it's just retaliation, but in case you skipped over this entire thread (not to mention the multiple threads on your wall), let me be clear once again: I was already going to bring up concerns I had about Wiz before this thread even happened. The fact that I went second does not mean it's retaliation and you certainly have no rational logic behind accusing me of that; simply immediate negativity towards me, nothing else. My first thread was closed by you. Reason? I did not cite any specifics about Wiz as rollback. That's a strange reason to close it for considering that Wiz's thread about me had nothing in the starting post until much later. I then opened a second thread where I was more specific. (See thread: http://dragonvale.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:943862) You agreed to be a neutral admin. Wiz refused to comment and you attempted to blame me for it, saying I had to start providing more concerns to be discussed. How can I possibly give more concerns when Wiz refuses to comment? Either way, you immediately said Wiz's accusations were not made up (which they are, and you should know that since you had to correct him on almost every rule) and you said I was doing it out of retaliation and closed the thread. So much for being neutral... Certainly not the way any admin should act.

      Again, the point of this section is not to start a discussion about DT. I am simply showing that this whole demotion thread should not even exist in the first place. I can not do that without providing the entire story.

      Justin then agreed to be a neutral admin. My proof against Wiz was continually edited out of my posts. Reason? It came from another user's PM. Does that sound familiar to any of you? Especially you, DT? It should, because Wiz was allowed to carry on his "concerns" about me with other users' PMs. In fact, he was allowed to carry it all the way to a demotion thread. It was only after the thread was closed that the PM posts were deleted. What a convenient time to edit them out….

      But my proof on Wiz's thread on Justin's wall? Immediately not allowed. This is unfair to every single user on the wiki. If this behavior (and this thread) is allowed against me, then who's next? DT and Wiz can simply make up whatever they want and only delete their rule breaking posts after your demotion thread has already started. This entire thread is against the rules. You had no authority to make it.



      TL;DR (Too Long; Didn't Read):

      Discussing pre-release game content - Never happened. Every thing I've spoken about has either been in-game or solicited.

      Harassment of other users - Not a single one of your screenshots show harassment. Rudeness? Maybe some of you think so, but even so, not against the rules.

      Trolling - Not even close. Making a joke in chat is not trolling, no matter how unfunny you think it is.

      Asking for Personal Information - I've only asked for emails and passwords after it was either solicited or there was a discussion about it first.

      General Spamming (empty links and pings) - The occasional empty link or ping is not against the rules, but doing it over and over in a short time certainly is and I've never done that.




      If anyone has definitive proof that I have broken any rule, I will personally step down as wiki mod and chat mod. No need to even vote.

      (Remember: Joking in chat is not against the rules. Expressing my opinion, even if it's rude, is not against the rules. And so on and so on. . .you get the point.)

      Prove that I have broken just one rule and I'll step down myself.

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    • In response to the section above related to me, I have no personal reason whatsoever to have opened this discussion. I am merely following the process the community voted on, in that a user attempted to resolve issues on a thread on my wall and when he felt they could not be resolved, requested the discussion be opened.

      In addition, although I did tell Wiz he could not bring others into a conversation, I missed one of the screen shots he added (although I did attempt to keep the thread cleaned up) and deleted it as soon as that oversight was pointed out.

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    • @AHKM, yes i did say "type somthing and let me see it," but the reason i said tht was because u were putting me on a guilt trip from hell, and even if i said tht, YOU are the mod, YOU were supposed to say "I can't tell you what to say because that would be breaking the policies," and no no no no no! I was under the understanding that THIS forum was the vote, so i said "this is why i didnt want it to come to a vote because i would support the demotion" latter i figured out that this was the discussion, so right there all of your evidence against me to make my screenshots false is flawed, im still Supporting your demotion!

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    • @DT:

      No personal reason?

      You allowed Wiz to post multiple (MULTIPLE) screenshots of other users PMs and carry on with his discussion and only deleted those posts after the thread was closed. You seem to know so much about these processes except for when you conveniently forget them when it's about me. But you say it's not personal....

      You corrected Wiz multiple times about his misinterpretations of the rules, yet still allowed himt to carry on anyway as if his claims were still valid. But you say it's not personal...

      I attempted to open 2 threads on your wall with you as a neutral admin, which you agreed to. The first was closed because I didn't cite specific reasons about Wiz being a rollback. (Again, strange considering Wiz's thread didn't have any reasons in his starting post.) But you say it's not personal...

      The second thread was closed after Wiz refused to comment and you tried to make it seem like I was the one not participating. You then went back on your responsibility as neutral admin after you accused me of retaliation. But you say it's not personal...

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    • @Eddie:

      You lied. You flat out lied. You said I was forcing you when I wasn't. You came to me MANY times to try to help me. Then you only used half of our last conversation to make it seem as if I was forcing you. You attempted to turn everyone against me. My screenshots prove you lied. Why would you do that?

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    • Wiz, I am guessing you have other things like her staying in chat, like u were trying to point out before in pm, and all those points, well i guess there is a say. I would like to say to wiz, that even you aren't in chat when people need you, even ping you, and you dont even respond. So you cant actually blame she is there or not, can you? You can't because no one is on 24/7, even she leaves once in a while, so i dont think you could say anything...

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    • @AHKM, I have not lied in this forum, my screenshots are 100% accurate, and I WAS OR YOUR SIDE! until u tried to get me to say the conflict with wiz was unresolved, that was when i was no longer on your side. So you flat out  made afalse accusation against me, why would you do that?

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    • @Eddie: How could I guilt trip you into anything when you came to me asking for help against Wiz? :\

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    • May i point out a couple of things? well, i will no matter what that answer is :3

      the rules state you should not (may not?) upload content until it is in the game..that does not mean if it glitched, but rather that EVERYONE has it in their games. Just like when the habitats gltiched between our current look and the old look - we waited to see if everyone had it - not if one or two people had it!

      additionally, the rules for a demotion thread are clear - it is up tot he person who filed the complaint (me) to see if he/she is satisfied with the direction of the discussion, and i was not.

      about testing - most users say "test" or something along those lines other than a balnk space.

      Giant habitats - i did not ASK you if we were getting them, one day (the day they entered the files..if this statment should bre removed, you can if you want to) you came into chat and pasted large chunks of text - fresh out of the files! you showed me the giant lightning and plant (if i remember correctly) and the obstacles that would soon become purchasable. i did not "solicite" this information from you.

      Passwords - asking for my main password when i agreed to help you with the idea for dragon gifs was not the situation. we were using test accounts which i freely gave the passowrd out (and it is even on the external forum..it is not just mine, anyone can use it to be honest, it just goes under my name) but you pleaded with me for my dad's passowrd to get the limited dragon vidoes, because they had already expired and no way to get them on a test..and my main account had something like 5 gems so i could not power-breed them.

      Eddie - if edddie came to you asking for help with his "issue" you are a MOD and should have acted like one. When i asked and admin if a screenshot i had should be posted on this thread she replied saying "i am not to discuss this issue in chat, if you want to share, put it on the forum" (paraphrased). You could have done the same. and either way, this does not change the fact that you told eddie to "bend the truth" in his own favor

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    • Exactly one picture was removed after the thread was closed, and that was because I missed it in the thread. All other changes were done while the thread was opened.

      Whether or not I think Wiz "proved" anything, the process is that he, as a user, determines if the discussion on a neutral admin's wall met his needs. If not, he, as a user, can ask for the discussion to be opened. I have no authority to stop him from that. 

      I closed one thread because you were not bringing up any specifics about Wiz' rollback role. The second was closed because I candidly pointed out that I was unable to remain neutral, which I am expected to do in the role of "neutral admin". I asked another admin to help out in my place. I did not go back on any responsibility; I was merely honest that I could no longer stay neutral as I was becoming angry at the situtation and felt it best to recuse myself.

      But, since this is not about me, I'd rather not continue to discuss it here. Please feel free to contact me directly if you would like.

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    • Eddie786™ wrote:
      @AHKM, I have not lied in this forum, my screenshots are 100% accurate, and I WAS OR YOUR SIDE! until u tried to get me to say the conflict with wiz was unresolved, that was when i was no longer on your side. So you flat out  made afalse accusation against me, why would you do that?

      You told her to say what you think she should say, she didn't force you to lie, she didnt force you to do anything. Was she holding you against your will? I doubt it. And you asked her opinon, you didn't have to take it.

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    • @ahkm, I'm really getting annoyed with you, you said i had  no right demoting you! I'm a wiki user! I can make decissions! and at the time i was on your side. But after you told me what to say, i realized it was agiant the rules, that is all i have to say, you said what u said in tht pm, and it broke the rules regaurdless

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      Eddie786™ wrote:
      @AHKM, I have not lied in this forum, my screenshots are 100% accurate, and I WAS OR YOUR SIDE! until u tried to get me to say the conflict with wiz was unresolved, that was when i was no longer on your side. So you flat out  made afalse accusation against me, why would you do that?
      You told her to say what you think she should say, she didn't force you to lie, she didnt force you to do anything. Was she holding you against your will? I doubt it. And you asked her opinon, you didn't have to take it.


      The fact that she gave her opinion in the form of what to write regaurdless of if i asked for it or not was not following the pollicies

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    • @DT: Wiz has posted multiple PM screenshots. And it really doesn't matter if the thread was technically still open or not. You allowed him to carry false claims against me.

      And if it really is that a user determines that the discussion on your wall does not meet his needs, why was I not allowed to open a discussion like this one when Wiz refused to comment on my thread about him? But wait....it's not personal?

      As for your neutrality, the immense amount of rules that Wiz was wrong about and you had to correct him on didn't make you give up your neutrality? The fact that Wiz continued to speak about his claims based on false rules ddn't make you give up your neutrality? But when I literally can not carry on a conversation with Wiz because he refuses to participate, you're suddenly unable to remain neutral. But you say it's not personal....


      @Wiz: As I said multiple times now, everything was taken down once we figured out it was a glitch. And obviously a glitch happens to a lot more than 2 people.

      When I open a thread against you, I'm suddenly not allowed to carry it to a discussion like this one. Strange...

      Testing.... You sure are grasping at straws here, Wiz. "test" "testing" "space", all acceptable and not spam.

      You solicite information from me all the time. You're always asking me about what's new, including the giant habitats.

      I never pleaded for anyone's password ever. You're simply exaggerating (lying).

      Again, that was not the first time Eddie had spoken to me. He had been asking for a way to help me for many days straight. He wanted my advice, so I gave it to him. I broke no rules.

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    • Eddie786™ wrote:
      @ahkm, I'm really getting annoyed with you, you said i had  no right demoting you! I'm a wiki user! I can make decissions! and at the time i was on your side. But after you told me what to say, i realized it was agiant the rules, that is all i have to say, you said what u said in tht pm, and it broke the rules regaurdless

      You have no right to demote anyone without proof. You can not simply vote away someone's rights just because you want to.

      You asked me for help. I helped. That's the end of it and it is in no way breaking the rules.

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    • AHKM you did break rules,  and yes i spoke to you cuz i thought we had a real friendship on the wiki, but when u told me what to say (which i THOUGHT at the time was ok) and i found out it was against the rules, and you kept saying "post the screenshot, its ur right, he shouldnt have done it, its bullying" or w.e. and the issue was RESOLVED, that is when i figured out you were using me, oh and p.s. i REALLY wish i screenshoted this, when you said "Two things, pokemon news and i need help" and you made me give you tht screenshot of wiz saying what he said to me b4 you told me the pokemon news, in fact you wouldnt tell me the news unless i gave it to you, but w.e. i have no screenshot and i know ur going to deny it

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    • Just to clear things up, i can very well go on pickle's wall (for example, all of this is an expample - just being clear) and file a complaint about dt saying she breaks all of the rules in chat and makes inaprorpiate comments etc etc etc...dt could give the best answers in the world, but i can be stubborn and insist it move on to a discussion, and then it would. 

      In the case of this actual discussion, however, i am clearly not the only one with my opinions. also, you can open a thread against me, if you find a neutral admin. 

      Additionally, correcting people is part of an admin's job - to help users understand the rules of the wiki!

      I have not aksed about giant habitats, you told me without any questions

      i do not have screenshots of this, although i can give you my honest word because i know it is true. I was a trusted worker and i would have never thought to question you until reality struck me in the face. ALSO: instead of giving you the password, you made me go through all my friends to find the dragons we needed .-. i even asked a few users in main chat if they had the dragons, so maybe that could form a little proof.

      and again, it is not the first time you could have done your job as a mod and told him to stop!


      Edit: Updated

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote:
      Eddie786™ wrote:
      @ahkm, I'm really getting annoyed with you, you said i had  no right demoting you! I'm a wiki user! I can make decissions! and at the time i was on your side. But after you told me what to say, i realized it was agiant the rules, that is all i have to say, you said what u said in tht pm, and it broke the rules regaurdless
      You have no right to demote anyone without proof. You can not simply vote away someone's rights just because you want to.

      You asked me for help. I helped. That's the end of it and it is in no way breaking the rules.

      I saw the discussion with you and wiz on DT's wall....all his points were valid, so that is why i demoted you in the first place, and i dont think every1 here has proof either....

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    • You have no right to demote anyone without proof. You can not simply vote away someone's rights just because you want to.

      To clarify DV Wiki policy, all users do in fact have the right to request the community vote on removal of staff rights with no "proof" of anything.

      This may be a policy in need of revision, but it is in fact what the community selected as its policy. Our rights are given and can be removed by the community.

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    • @Andy: Although this does not include only you, I am absolutely shocked that you would bring my personal life into this. YOU have personally come to me in private msgs multiple times asking me for updates on my personal life that we discussed.

      @Everyone Else: The same goes for you too. Although you may not have been as active as Andy was, it was still solicited and you therefore have no right to complain or use it against me.

      @AllHailKingMe: I did not disclose any details regarding your personal life whatsoever. I simply brought up the fact that it's simply unacceptable for a staff member to solicit donations from users via PM on a continual basis. As for your claim that "[I] have personally come to [you] in private msgs multiple times asking [you] for updates on [your] personal life that we discussed", this is simply untrue. YOU are the one who gave me updates about your personal life out of your own free will as soon as I entered the chat. I simply offered to listen and made an effort to empathize with you.

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    • AHKM:

      On the Terradiem, it doesn't even matter if you could get it as a glitch within the first few minutes of release. We decided in chat to remove the description on the page at 7:50PM PST on April 17th (http://dragonvale.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ADragon_Variable&diff=1127788&oldid=1127786). This meant that the description would be "pre-release content" until AFTER the dragon was officially in the market. Yet, according to my screenshot that I had posted earlier (http://i.imgur.com/otVCzAS.png) you mentioned that "pre-release content" to a user at 1:33AM PST on April 18th, which was still eight whole hours before it was officially released into the game at 9:37AM PST on April 18th (http://dragonvale.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ADragon_Variable&diff=1128309&oldid=1127788).

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    • Emails, Passwords, and Private Life: I have only asked for emails and passwords when it was solicited or there was some sort of discussion first.

      For example, Crtha volunteered to help me so it was only logical that I ask for her email. I asked Andy for help with pictures and told him what I needed (in this case his gamecenter name and password). This is not against the rules. He can say no, and that's the end of it. I never forced nor harassed anyone to give me personal information.

      I don't know if you realized this, but Dragon trip clearly made it evident that "Asking for passwords is a violation of Wikia's Terms of Use."  You have personally confessed to this offense and now you're telling us that "[t]his is not against the rules"? In addition to this, you have committed the same offense multiple times. Frost stated that you had another user ask for his GCID and password. Wiz also stated that you asked for his main GCID and password. This makes me question where your true intentions lie. What is to say you aren't collecting GCID's and passwords on a regular basis? This information is quite personal and can result in identity theft if inappropriately disclosed.

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    • Dragon trip
      Dragon trip removed this reply because:
      Doesn't belong here
      03:46, May 23, 2013
      This reply has been removed
    • AndyKhaos wrote:

      @AllHailKingMe: I did not disclose any details regarding your personal life whatsoever. I simply brought up the fact that it's simply unacceptable for a staff member to solicit donations from users via PM on a continual basis. As for your claim that "[I] have personally come to [you] in private msgs multiple times asking [you] for updates on [your] personal life that we discussed", this is simply untrue. YOU are the one who gave me updates about your personal life out of your own free will as soon as I entered the chat. I simply offered to listen and made an effort to empathize with you.

      You have approached me many times about my personal life, but it is true that I have come to you a few times as well. Forgive me for thinking we were friends and we could talk about it...

      And if you truly had a problem with it, you should have spoken up. If someone is talking to you in real life and you don't like it, do you just ignore them? Or do you speak up?

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    • ahkm, incase it is unclear - THIS is him speaking up!

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    • TheWizardz786™ wrote:
      ahkm, incase it is unclear - THIS is him speaking up!

      wiz, incase it is unclear - he should have spoken up before. I would have stopped if he had told me to. :\

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote:
      AndyKhaos wrote:

      @AllHailKingMe: I did not disclose any details regarding your personal life whatsoever. I simply brought up the fact that it's simply unacceptable for a staff member to solicit donations from users via PM on a continual basis. As for your claim that "[I] have personally come to [you] in private msgs multiple times asking [you] for updates on [your] personal life that we discussed", this is simply untrue. YOU are the one who gave me updates about your personal life out of your own free will as soon as I entered the chat. I simply offered to listen and made an effort to empathize with you.

      You have approached me many times about my personal life, but it is true that I have come to you a few times as well. Forgive me for thinking we were friends and we could talk about it...

      And if you truly had a problem with it, you should have spoken up. If someone is talking to you in real life and you don't like it, do you just ignore them? Or do you speak up?

      @AllHailKingMe: This is not a personal matter. It is about you violating the Wikia's Terms of Use. Whether or not one is your friend is irrelavent. It's in my nature to support what is "right" regardless of personal relations.

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote:
      Also, isn't it strange that all of this took place conveniently right after Wiz failed to be nominated for mod? If my expression of concerns of Wiz is seen as retaliation, then why aren't his actions seen as retaliation? Angry that he didn't get a nomination? Jealousy? Who knows. Just saying that the timing is odd. 

      AHKM, I can't speak for Wiz on that part, but I do want to note that even had he not created the thread last week, I had already asked about the procedure at the beginning of the month and was planning to start the thread imminently myself.

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    • I just want to clarify, i did NOT start this thread due to jealousy or any of the reasons stated, if i were going to do so based on the fact that i cannot be a wiki mod, i would/could/should have gone after the mods that blcoked me..or the mod that wrote the document stating i cannot run - not a mod who was not even involved. 

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    • AllHailKingMe wrote:

      General Spamming: I rarely ping anyone. In fact, I hardly speak in chat. How can I possibly be abusing the ping system? That's simple logic.

      As for empty links, this is not against the rules. Spamming multiple empty links would be spamming. Most recently, people were talking about cicadas. I jokingly put a link to a Cicada Dragon. Again, this is not against the rules and many users do this. It is especially not even close to a reason to demote someone.

      On the topic of "spaces," sometimes chat lags out and I (and other users as well) will type a space or "test" or something of that nature to make sure chat is still working. This is not spam.

      In our policies, one of the definition of spam is (iii) "fake items" or other false articles; which I have seen on multiple occasions dating back to July 2012 (screenshots were just a few). Also you made 2 instances of asking a user to check PM in less than a minute, as noted earlier, which also classifies as spam.

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    • As stated, this discussion is now closed, shortly after midnight on May 23. I will evaluate and determine if there are 5 clear supports of moving to vote and, if so, will open the vote tomorrow.

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    • Crthatha786™ wrote:
      Wiz, I am guessing you have other things like her staying in chat, like u were trying to point out before in pm, and all those points, well i guess there is a say. I would like to say to wiz, that even you aren't in chat when people need you, even ping you, and you dont even respond. So you cant actually blame she is there or not, can you? You can't because no one is on 24/7, even she leaves once in a while, so i dont think you could say anything...

      i just saw this (forum is moving fast)

      I am not on all day, but i am not a mod - if i am on chat or i am never on chat, i am never needed! Either way, this is not about me. 

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