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  • Hello, Ria!

    I just read you message on this forum thread. Everyone are entitled to their own opinion so I won't go much about the Wiki Rules and Policies Enforcement Guidelines.

    I was a little hurt by a few statement of yours not regarding to the vote.

    1) As it stands now, no one can edit anything here unless they are staff. If you try to put in even a note on a dragon page, it will be removed by someone.

    If you don't mind, may I ask why do you feel that no one can edit here except for staff members? Was there any note added that was removed without an edit summary or a message on a user's wall? I'm really not sure how to address this issue but some other helpful users and I are working on a Manual Of Style for this site. We have tried to include everything including a reminder to leave messages for users if their edit has been reverted. Do you have any suggestion that we could add to the sandbox to avoid this? I only remember some notes which were removed by users were related to appearance of a dragon (very subjective), and some which was included in another upcoming page sandbox. Most of the notes, are usually modified for consistency purposes.

    2) The Guidelines are actually set up so that staff members could take similar action when needed. For now there isn't any and not usually most of the users are aware of it since there could be new users joining the wiki and it's not about the policy but enforcement for it. I don't think most of Wiki's have similar policy. For an example, I saw a wiki that don't mind spoiler. We just try our best to make this a safe place.


    This is not related to this thread at all but I just had to say it..haha.. The other day I came across a wiki related to dragon breeding and you were an admin there. DragonCity Wiki :D I was so happy to see a dragon they introduced in the game..lol.. It was Ronaldo Dragon. That was so cool! I was going to post a comment there but totally forgot about it and got busy with other stuffs. Did you manage to get that dragon?

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    • Adriano,

      Thanks for your concern.  I am aware that for some time, a manual of style has been in the works and being an admin myself at DCW, I understand the need to try to keep some uniformity in mainspace pages like dragons.  However, for a long time it seems that staff are in total control of what little editing can be done on these pages.  Usually the only thing a regular user can add is in the notes section.  In my wiki it is still called "Trivia".  We are tightening up a little too, just to remove ridiculous and unnecessary stuff, but I would not even attempt to edit anything here.  The last time I did so, (and it was a long time ago) it was removed.  And I don't notice anyone who is a regular user attempting to edit dragon pages.  I mean, outside of special projects, what editing can a regular user do besides comment in the Forum?  The galleries are so regimented...you should see the galleries in DCW!  That is one area we let the users post what they want, even if it is a pic of the dragon egg in their own hatchery.  Otherwise this is just a place to look up information, with no real, meaningful participation from the membership.  

      As to Ranoldo Dragon, that is part of an event that I have not even had time to play.  Because of Ramadan and 4th of July we are very short staffed right now and I don't have time to even play DC, DV, or any of my other games because I have so much work to do.  I would have loved to get Ranoldo Dragon  (such a handsome fellow!), but I'm sure the event will be repeated next year.  I will have to wait until then.  

      Cheers!  

      ~Ria

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    • You're welcome, Ria! I'm really sorry if you feel that way but my only suggestion for the time being to all the users would be trying to reach out directly to the editor who reverts edits to ask why. I assure you that no staff is in control of anything. We are all normal users like other just with tools to help the wiki. "DragonVale Wiki's pages are public property and everyone is allowed to edit it in an attempt to make it better or more accurate." If you feel that the staff is controlling by removing important notes etc, please try to reach them directly as this would help a lot. I really hope your perspective would change towards this wiki and you would start editing here again. Most probably they are not editing because there is noting to add? Maybe the note is already included? I'm sure not all the pages here were only brought up by staff members but they also include users whom are not staff members. There are many things that can be done outside a forum, Ria. A few users have been helping with adding notes in the Possible Real Life Reference section of individual pages where most of the notes are subjective. This section was specially created when we didn't want to include it in the notes section. I'm not sure why you feel that the "rule" of adding images into a gallery is strict. I didn't have much time to explore DragonCity Wiki the other day but would do so when I get the time. Even-though we have a Facebook page, we still add images of notification and messages into the gallery. Everything that pops up on the screen even-though similar wording but different size, we still include it. We try our best to provide all the information to users whom are searching for information with taking into account that they do not have difficulties of finding the info also. Regarding including images of Eggs in hatchery, it would be too much if we start adding them that would make difficult for users to scroll the gallery to find information that was not included in the Dragon/Habitat/Building/Islandbox and also that has no purpose at all.

      Otherwise this is just a place to look up information, with no real, meaningful participation from the membership.

      I'm sorry! I totally disagree with this statement. If there was no meaningful participation from membership, we wouldn't be at this point today having most of the information covered for the game. I'm not sure if you are referring it to the present but I assure you that there is still participation from the membership. For example, we recently created a page with 200+ images with the help of many wonderful community members. It wouldn't be possible if there was no participation from the membership.

      Most of the "things" are always brought to the forums to get input from users and anyone is able to open up a forum if they think that something is not right and it has to be other way round. Besides that, they could also open a forum to suggest some things to improve efficiency or the wiki overall.

      I'm sorry! If I have said something wrong above but I really hope that this has cleared some concerns you have with the wiki, Ria.


      “There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception.” ― Aldous Huxley
        — Attribution 



      Ah! I see! I wish you luck for getting the dragoon soon or later. All the best, Ria! haha..He is one of my favorite football player :D

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    • Hello, I also saw your concern on the forum vote, and usually there isn't much information that is needed to be added to the article pages except during an update. Something I've noticed the past few months is that a number of community members have helped out a lot during the updates by editing some templates (so this wouldn't show in the wiki activity). In addition I have an "Update Checklist" linked on my user page (perhaps I should make it more upfront on my user page) which is meant to help the community find all the pages which might be needed during an update. Some community members have expressed that this has helped them.

      In regards to other editing, I am always open to ideas of what can be done to improve the wiki and I usually look into them whether I am particularly fond of the idea or not if that is what the community may want. For example, when a user suggested having a place where images of hybrid dragons with orbs and crowns could be seen I knew it would be a lot of work and wasn't sure of the idea. I then went and asked around and saw support of the idea and I went and made a forum to retrieve images for it. It is now three months later we have all the images and new page which members of the community are happy to have.

      The point of saying that is if you have a concern you are welcome to come and share it with me and maybe something can be worked on to help improve the community. So far to me most of the community seems happy with the navigation and information displayed on the wiki, and most subjective material is usually posted in user blogs.

      I understand why too many policies and enforcement protocols can be bad, but the current votes are mostly for clarification on the avatars/usernames since there was at least one or two situations where a user refused to change an offensive name or avatar because they did not consider it to be content. The written enforcement forum vote is already things we practice on the wiki but it is just putting it in written form so if someone asks why they received a warning or block or ban for the specific length of time we can point to it in written form approved by the community. It also would serve as a spot (if supported) for the community to see how things are enforced, and for new staff members enforcing the policies to have a place to make sure they aren't being too harsh.

      Again, if you have any concerns you are welcome to come to me with them or start a forum discussion as well.

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    • I agree with what Bane said. The "Update Checklist" would also be included in the Manual of Style. It is really very helpful and I've also started using it including the MoS.

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    • Adriano, if you check my response to your post, I did say "outside of special projects", which include all the contributions users made to requests for images, etc.  I'm not holding up Dragon City Wiki as some sort of example either, I was just noting the difference.  Dragon City, while being about dragons, is a very different game.  There are constant updates, offers, contests, events, which DV does not have.  So perhaps there is more opportunity for users to get involved if they wish to.  

      To Bane,  I am in no way referring to anything specific, it's just something that seemed to creep up. Perhaps I have just been here so long, that I remember a time when things were different and perhaps that has more to do with the people who have left.  I was lurking around here before Liber was a b'crat for heaven's sake, long before Dragon Trip was even a rollback.  I started coming to the wiki 3 months or so after DV was launched even though I didn't register for almost a year.  Perhaps it is the people who have left that I miss and the atmosphere that they provided.  I am not saying you guys aren't doing a good job, or anything like it.  It's just that this place is so different now.  And it just seems like so many rules.  I know rules are necessary, of course,  It just seems like a lot.

      And something needs to be done about vetting!  There are some people on staff that I feel quite strongly are using their veto power to deny anyone they don't like from gaining a staff position.  I'm not referring to either of you, but people who are clearly qualified are being turned away.  I took a look at the current staff list....wow!  It is down to so few people!  The main reason for that is because of vetting.  I know that people come and go, but others would have already replaced them if they had not been vetoed by some staff member.  This has become a very serious problem.  

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    • I understand what you are saying, I probably started visiting the wiki in October 2011 while searching how to breed a Blue Fire Dragon. Things were a lot different back then in atmosphere and how content was displayed. Overall I think the wiki is in a better place aesthetically and in regards to navigation (or at least I hope so) and also in regards to atmosphere (which had to change once a huge influx of younger users appeared after the Metal Element was released).

      I definitely don't want a lot of rules and complicated policies, and most of what is in these proposed policies being voted on I actually drafted up at the end of September 2013 when some former staff members were around. Due to other projects and thing and lack of urgency it had been put aside for awhile. I know in the past I've even worked on simplifying polices as well. When I work on drafts I personally try to be reasonable and not too strict, but maybe it comes across differently at times.

      The vetting has always been a touchy subject, and I prefer the current vetting procedure to the old one, but there does seem to be some loopholes in it which I am unsure how to address at this time.

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    • Yes, I just found out that you got the probationary part put in and while I wish none of that were necessary, it's proving to be a good thing.  Personally, I feel that anyone who opposes someone should have to state their reasons and there should be concrete examples they can point to on why someone is not capable of doing the job.  I really feel that a lot of this is personal.  There are people on staff that I'm not particularly fond of, but I would never say that they aren't qualified.  People need to learn to work with those who hold differing opinions, not deny them the opportunity to serve the wiki.  

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    • I agree that the probationary part is a good thing, and we are currently in our first time using it so I am unsure if anything will change after the voting which seems to be leaning in a similar direction as the first time.

      I usually try to remain objective, especially in situations like assigning extra tools to some help the wiki.

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    • Rianza33 wrote: Adriano, if you check my response to your post, I did say "outside of special projects", which include all the contributions users made to requests for images, etc.  I'm not holding up Dragon City Wiki as some sort of example either, I was just noting the difference.  Dragon City, while being about dragons, is a very different game.  There are constant updates, offers, contests, events, which DV does not have.  So perhaps there is more opportunity for users to get involved if they wish to.  

      Hola, Ria! Yup! I did read that part and I also included an example of "outside special projects". However, I don't see any difference between those "special projects" and "not special projects". Everyone are entitled to their own opinion. Yea! That could also be a reason why you feel that more users get involved. Besides that, as Bane mentioned most of the editing happens in a template which does not appear in the News feed.

      Wow! That has been a really long time, Ria. I also do miss all of them and always wish that they would come back to the wiki once real life things are settled. Just waiting for that one day... Justin, Pickle, Dragon trip, Wizardz, Synergy and many others. *sighs* But on the bright side we have so many new users on the wiki whom are also kind, creative, caring, and funny. :D:D:D

      hmm..I personally think that this could be brought up to a forum discussion. We can work together to come up with a proposal or something. What say?

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    • Adriano, sure, but put it on a To do list. We are also short staffed at my wiki due to Ramadan and people on vacay, and I am behind in my work there. Perhaps in August we can start to work on something.

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    • Sure! Sure! I'll add a reminder in my "Reminders App" about it. I understand, we could definitely work on this in August. I'm looking forward to working with you on this. Maybe first we can discuss about this on a MessageWall thread to draft up something in a sandbox, then bring it to a forum discussion and finally vote.

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    • Sure!  I'll contact you in a few weeks and we can find a place to discuss it.  

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    • Cool! :D

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    • A FANDOM user
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